Author Topic: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?  (Read 1471 times)

Offline Tanselman

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What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« on: May 11, 2022, 12:10:07 AM »
I have a fine full-stocked rifle from the central Bluegrass region of Kentucky that has an "oddball" lock and I am trying to figure out what the original lock was. Note the very short front end to the lock, as well as the lock mortise. Similarly, note the short nose on the lock bolt plate on the back side, indicating a very short original lock. The gun has a provenance back to its original owner in Montgomery County, Kentucky, and the provenance states the gun was purchased originally as a flintlock... and later family members held/hold to the same belief. There is a vent pick hole in the toe of the butt, about 1,25" deep and dirty, which strongly suggests it was originally a flintlock, and the gun dates to about 1820 or shortly thereafter despite its single lock bolt... which appeared in Kentucky about 1820.

The current lock is a period replacement for the original, a reworked percussion lock with its nose shortened and mainspring made smaller. The replacement lock slightly enlarged the original lock mortise but is generally about the size of the original lock. In discussing the gun with experts, the possibility of an early pill lock was suggested, perhaps explaining the short nose. But I've never seen another pill lock rifle from Kentucky in all the years I've been chasing and researching Kentucky guns. Do any of you have thoughts about this rifle's original lock, how it could have been so short on the front end, and could it possibly have been flint as the family maintains?

Shelby Gallien




« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 12:17:09 AM by Tanselman »

Offline FALout

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2022, 12:36:11 PM »
I doubt that it was ever flint, not enough room for a frizzen or spring, and not likely to have had a different lock.  Even if it had a different lock, it still doesn’t look like there was enough room for a flintlock.
Bob

Offline DavidC

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2022, 01:31:09 PM »
http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/german_locks_and_hardware/(659).htm

Unless it was some sort of custom oddity that's likely just a rethread.

Now if the front end of the lock plate shows signs of being reworked like tooling marks to shorten it it could have been a flintlock and they shortened it. Otherwise it looks like a misplaced hole was corrected or a stripped thread was replaced.


Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2022, 04:31:37 PM »
Check out the third lock down here https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=71047.msg710509#new 

No scale but it looks short and stubby like your mortice. It's available as castings.
Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline rich pierce

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2022, 04:39:15 PM »
It’s confusing to me that there’s no evidence of removal of pan or fence. So I conclude this lock was never flint. Maybe the original lock was flint if there was one before this one. Gun sure looks flintlock period.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2022, 04:52:45 PM »
Rich, he posited that the lock is a period replacement that was modified to fit.

Robert Wolfe
Northern Indiana

Offline poppy

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2022, 05:56:30 PM »
period restock ,part,s were reused ,breechplug replaced and lock, to percussion.

Offline FALout

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2022, 01:21:29 AM »
After looking at pics of rifles, I guess I could have been closed minded about the shortness of this lock/ lock mortise.  I have seen some that were shorter then what is normal for earlier locks.  So, I guess it is possible it was originally constructed flint in late flint period to early percussion.  The erosion on the barrel could back that up even tho neglected percussion could also have caused that.  No matter how you look at it, it has good family history and sentimental accolades and it’s not a bad looking rifle.  Whether flint or percussion, I don’t know if it’s the angle of the pic, but the ignition point sure is back to the end of the barrel.
Bob

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: What Kind of Lock Was This Rifle Originally?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2022, 02:42:32 PM »
Certainly no masterpiece but an interesting relic to say the least.The triggers look like they came from a much higher quality gun and the
drum must be screwed into the breech plug threads.
Bob Roller