1974 Bob Roller lock

[ed lundquist]

Purchased this Bob Roller lock here a little while ago and as I was cleaning it up some questions came up.

The Roller lock [bottom] is very different from the Bailes lock [top] that was used as the base for the later Rollers. What lock was used for this one?

The frizzen is held with a tapered pin rather than a screw and I wondered if that is your work Bob? Is the cock original?



The internals are a bit different from my later lock but as beautifully made, This lock was never drilled for bolts although the frizzen has some wear and there was pitting and some crude attempt to file and finish. I have cleaned it up and am going to pair it up with a 40cal Bob Hoyt barrel. Any insights are appreciated and thanks for your fine work Bob.

[WadePatton]

Oh dang, here I was ready to fling money at you! 

Then I see it's no classified ad. 

I think I have one just about like that, made much later. I'm going to grab it and see. That might take a day or two, so no breath holding. I too am interested, have always been interested in the improvements Mr. Roller incorporates into his locks. I know most all things important involve tradeoffs, but I don't quite understand the tradeoffs made in consideration of the geometries and engagements of lock internals. I'd like to learn more about that, only if Bob cares to discuss it of course.

[alacran]

I have that same lock on a pistol. Mine is a later lock, early "80s. Don't have it with me right now.
The difference is the frizzen spring on mine has a roller on it. It used to be a flint eater. The frizzen spring broke, I was able to repair it. After the repair the spring was weakened, and it quit eating flints.
Mine has the same tapered pin on the frizzen.
Curiously there is a hard siilver solder line going all the way across the pan.
I got mine by way of Al Sortino, when he lived in Tucson.

[Bob Roller]

The lock made on the L&R external parts is nearly identical to the Nock lock loaned to me by Lynton McKenzie in 1978.
The other one is the Chet Shoults Ketland externally.This one came into the market as made by Chet and nobody else until
he had to quit making them because of health issues It was a kit made from moulds that cost about $5000 in 1956.
I think I made my first ones around 1963 but made my own mechanisms which were the old style and then developed the
linked spring idea and used it in all flintlocks I made until I shut down lock making in 2019.I didn't worry about interchangeable parts
and stayed with the same materials until the end.The concern now is the moulds for the Shoults lock and lack of replacment frizzens.
Eventually,after several changes of owners,these moulds were the property of Jerry Devaudreuil in Wooster,Ohio and he is now deceased,
He had a lot of moulds and they seem to be in limbo with final disposition yet to be determined.
The external parts of 3 L&R locks were what I used and so far no reported problems and they said I could buy them anytime I needed them.
   I took my time in making mechanisms for all locks I made and production short cuts were not part of the schedule.I also did small runs
of bronze bearings for old automatic transmissions and helped another machine shop when they needed me and an old friend who had a
European car repair shop called on me,Now with no boys to feed and no debts I see no need to revive lock making and a few triggers once in a while will be all I do.The first 4 months of this year I was not in the shop at all and now am considering pulling the plug as soon as the last
bars of trigger bar material is used. Now 86 and no new projects planned.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

I have that same lock on a pistol. Mine is a later lock, early "80s. Don't have it with me right now.
The difference is the frizzen spring on mine has a roller on it. It used to be a flint eater. The frizzen spring broke, I was able to repair it. After the repair the spring was weakened, and it quit eating flints.
Mine has the same tapered pin on the frizzen.
Curiously there is a hard siilver solder line going all the way across the pan.
I got mine by way of Al Sortino, when he lived in Tucson.

That lock must have been modified by Sorrentino and I never silver soldered anything on a lock.Sounds  like he took something that wasn't broke and "fixed it".Never used a rollered frizzen spring except the L&R 900/Ashmore that came with one.
Bob Roller

[heinz]

Bob, did you use tapers ping instead of screws to hold the frizzes on any of your locks?

[Bob Roller]

Bob, did you use tapers ping instead of screws to hold the frizzes on any of your locks?

Yes I used them in place of screws and they are easy to get a very accurate fit with.No danger  of breaking a tap either. used 4/0 and 3/0 x 1' for well over 100 locks.Also use 6'0 for the link connecting the tumbler to the mainspring for a while then ran out of them.
Bob Roller

[ed lundquist]

Thanks for the replies Bob and everyone. I now have history on this lock and will forward that with the build. So much work was done leading up to what we use today, thanks for being a big part of that Bob.

[rsells]

I used one of these locks made by Bob to build a rifle many years ago, and to date it is still the fastest rifles I have ever made.  Great work Bob.
                                                                                   Roger Sells

[alacran]

I have that same lock on a pistol. Mine is a later lock, early "80s. Don't have it with me right now.
The difference is the frizzen spring on mine has a roller on it. It used to be a flint eater. The frizzen spring broke, I was able to repair it. After the repair the spring was weakened, and it quit eating flints.
Mine has the same tapered pin on the frizzen.
Curiously there is a hard siilver solder line going all the way across the pan.
I got mine by way of Al Sortino, when he lived in Tucson.

That lock must have been modified by Sorrentino and I never silver soldered anything on a lock.Sounds  like he took something that wasn't broke and "fixed it".Never used a rollered frizzen spring except the L&R 900/Ashmore that came with one.
Bob Roller

I did not get the lock directly from Sorrentino. The person I got it from had a couple of locks that he had gotten it from him. They were unused.
At any rate I was just reporting on what I got and had no way of knowing that they were altered. They inside of the lock is beautifully machined.
I really like the tapered pin for the frizzen. There are no threads to get gunked up with black powder fouling. Makes removal for cleaning very simple.
I am happy to have it.

[Mike Brooks]

Walter Cain used to use tapered pins for his frizzen pivot too. I guess all the cool guys did.

[Bob Roller]

I like the tapered pin and I called it a K-I-S-S idea. Keep It Stupidly Simple. .I had to use screws on all the Nock type locks I sent to the shop of Helmut Mohr because the old ones had no "Conical Pin".On some with screws I made screws that had threads under the head and a stem for the frizzen to pivot on.That eleminated the risk of a tap broken off in a lock bolster.Nothing new about that either,just a pan arm with a threaded hole.
Bob Roller