Amazing Purdey rifle just sold.

[Justin Urbantas]

I came across this 16 bore Purdey rifle that was just sold at auction.
I wish I had the money for it, but it went for a pretty reasonable $5000.
It is a .69 and had some excellentrestoration done.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Justin:  that is a wonderful rifle and for sale at half price.  Thanks for the show and tell.

[mr. no gold]

Thanks Justin. Just another shining example of the wonderful work of the English gunmakers! No one did it better, and I am a Kentucky rifled guy.
Dick

[Daryl]

Ohhhhh - that is downright loverly.
& 14 bore, to boot! 16 bore is .66 cal., .662" to be exact.
14 is exactly .693".

[Ezra]

In my dreams.

Ez

[smylee grouch]

Yes, Mr. Purdey and a hand full of other UK builders have to be considered at the top of the BEST list. JMHO Thanks for posting Justin

[J.M.Browning]

Beautiful, the lock very similar to my Baker locks

[Pukka Bundook]

JM,
Your locks could be by the same maker. Most likely the Purdey will have either Joseph Brazier or Stanton locks.
Many top flight makers used one or the other. Grainger and some few others are also top notch.

Have you checked yours for name?

[Bob Roller]

MOST used pattern for lock plates in several sizes.I have made close to 40 of the full size Stanton patterns since 1987 and maybe 8 smaller ones for rook rifles or maybe a pistol.I am trying to finish a small one now by working on it a little at a time.
Three years out of practice and no real need to finish it and if it turns out well I will offer it here and nowhere else.
My wife has medical issues and I don't leave her alone for long periods of time.
   In a Double Gun Journal I have a close photo,"live and in color"of a 5 pin Brazier lock on a Horsley shotgun.It has a short fall rebounding hammer which may limit the rotation needed for a caplock to work right.
   It IS obvious the British had lock making down to a fine art and for some of us,a challenge to try to replicate.Lynton McKenzie
was a friend that would loan me anything in his collection including high end locks from existing guns and I borrowed a fine Stanton 4 pin and copied it close enough so the parts would interchange from new to old and used the old 4x42 screws to put the new made parts onto the old plate,The springs and fly would also interchange.I showed it around at Friendship in the Fall of 1987 and R.E.Davis bought it and then loaned it to me to continue showing it.Tom Dawson said he knew that sooner or later I would try to copy one of these and was glad to see this one.The small one I decided to try and finish is a close copy of a Stanton from a boy's rifle Lynton owned.The rifle shown here is a superb example of what can be done by people who take pride in all they make.
Bob Roller

[J.M.Browning]

JM,
Your locks could be by the same maker. Most likely the Purdey will have either Joseph Brazier or Stanton locks.
Many top flight makers used one or the other. Grainger and some few others are also top notch.

Have you checked yours for name?

I have not removed the locks .

[Pukka Bundook]

Actually, these locks may be a Bit early to be made by those I mentioned above!
It just dawned on me now . I Must be slow!

[Bob Roller]

Thanks Justin. Just another shining example of the wonderful work of the English gunmakers! No one did it better, and I am a Kentucky rifled guy.
Dick

The Brits nailed it for sure and they have been my favorites for about 70 years and my love of their locks is well known.
IMHO the closest we came here were the Eastern target rifles like the N.G.Whitmore made rifle for General Grant.
There others but Whitrmore stands out.I recently found a picture of myself with the Whitmore 40 caliber with a full length
telescope sight.This was a patent breech design with a back action lock and double set triggers* + silver trigger guard and
butt plate and no loading rod carried on the barrel.The picture is dated 1960.I paid $100 in silver certificated money for it and then that was 2 weeks pay here.*The Grant rifle and the Purdey shown here both have a single set trigger.
I have read that the Hawken brothers were influenced by English sporting rifles that showed up in St.Louis but other than the
sometimes large calibers, I see none of it from then or now.Excluding the copy of the lock on the Peterson Hawken the last
Hawken styled (hammer&plate)lock I made had a "3 pin Stanton"mechanism and there is a noticeable difference when the locks are cycled from all the way down to fully cocked.The Petersen was a low end copy with no detailing worth mentioning and a fully cocked or nothing tumbler and dark blue springs.The bridle has one screw and a pin like an old military lock.It now belongs to a friend that has a collection of my locks and triggers,None are for sale.
Bob Roller

Bob Roller

[JHeath]

Thanks Justin. Just another shining example of the wonderful work of the English gunmakers! No one did it better, and I am a Kentucky rifled guy.
Dick

I have read that the Hawken brothers were influenced by English sporting rifles that showed up in St.Louis but other than the
sometimes large calibers, I see none of it from then or now.
Bob Roller

Bob Roller

Bob, I don't understand this one bit.

In the 1820s, American rifles were generally very long, fullstock, smallish caliber, pinned barrels, fixed breeches, with sideplates.

1820s English rifles were 31" big bores, halfstock, wedges and very often two wedges, standing breeches, side escutcheons, and scroll trigger guards.

We know from crescent butts and DS triggers that many Americans were shooting "schuetzen style", cross body from the upper arm, and carefully. I don't accept that Americans were impaling their chests on crescent plates. Frankly, it's borderline as preposterous as mounting a schuetzen buttplate to the chest.

How many fowlers have buttplates like a Hawken? Honest question. Imagine flushing a grouse and jamming that buttplate into your chest. Rifles weren't being held like fowlers. If the crescent plate were just rakish fashion, it would be as common on fowlers. 

The English seemed to prefer their rifles set up like fowlers, quick to mount to the shoulder pocket.

The classic Hawken looks to me like nothing more than an English rifle set up for people who shoot deliberately, cross body with set triggers. It's like saying "That car looks just like a Jaguar, and has a V12, and the hood ornament is some kind of big cat, but it can't be a Jaguar because the steering wheel is on the left side." The Hawken, to me, is basically an American-market ESR with crescent and set triggers.

[RAT]

Barrel keys were very common on American rifles after 1800.

[Bob Roller]

Back in the mid 1970's I gave lock making lessons to a man,Sid Estep who was a good machinist and after he learned how to make springs he made some good locks but never got the name recognition needed as a maker.He also made triggers for Hawken and the smaller styles.
He used the Robideaux drawings and made a superb copy of a late Sam Hawken rifle and
a Douglas 50 caliber barrel.He and his dad took it to the range to fire it and and he called me that evening and said my barrel crowning job was bad and the best he got was a 1and 1/8"group at 100 yard from a rest and with the sights copied from the drawing .His dad shot it and the crescent butt plate jabbed him and he said he wouldn't give $25 for such a gun.Sid made anther one for him and it had a shotgun butt plate and it was better looking and comfortable to shoot even with heavy loads and as I remember,it was a 1"54 caliber.
After having his locks and triggers rejected he abandoned muzzle loaders and sold me the
spring steel,0-1 flat ground and all the hammers for caplocks and the Chet Shoults flintlocks.This sport/hobby lost a fine craftsman and even Tom Dawson said the Hawken copy was as good as anything he could do and the lock and triggers worked as well as mine
but the needed recognition never came.The last muzzle loader I made was a 451 long range but I used the stalking rifle stock with the sights and what I consider a better looking trigger guard and no crescent butt plate.The stock was a semi finished one from Don Brown as was the butt plate and the horn fore end tip.Even with 90 grains of 3fg Goex or Swiss and a 530 grain bullet it was not hard to shoot from a rest at 500 meters.
Bob Roller