Opinions welcomed updated FINAL, well, not really.

[Molly]

Anyone have any ideas on this one?  Pulled the photos off the internet so they are not so good and not presented well.  The claim is it is 1st quarter to the 19th century.  Cherry stock supposed to be in otherwise great condition.  Appears to have a new nipple suggesting someone made it into a shooter.  A mystery gun to some who have been asked but it still has some appear.  Have not seen it in person.  Sorry for the photo presentation.  May be able to get more next week.

[Stoner creek]

It’s got Soddy Daisy lines.
That gun is in remarkably good condition for an antique. I’m leaning contemporary.

[Avlrc]

Looks contemporary to me.  But nice...

[Molly]

Now yer talking.  The soddy features do appear on the left and right side of the stock.  But there are no photos from the butt view.  The description does not say anything about the bore.  I'm anxious to see it first hand and will follow this with additional photos.  If it were a soddy and actually an old one, would that not be a great find?

Molly

[Stoner creek]

I’m in your corner!!!

[Rajin cajun]

Molly , appears to me to be some wood replaced above the lock, a good job of it though.
Nice rifle,

Bob

[JTR]

To me it looks unused, mostly unused, and contemporary. Maybe a mix of some old parts. Maybe an old barrel.
There's no percussion flash burn on the wood or iron, so use would be minimal at best. And wouldn't be the first new gun to have a wood repair on it, for one reason or another.

It's a nice looking rifle, and if the price is somewhat close to a new gun price, I'd buy it, if that was what I was looking for.
If it's being sold as an original, for sure a gun in hand inspection.

John

[Sequatchie Rifle]

I believe this rifle sold on Track of the Wolf several year back, if not it’s a close copy. My vote is contemporary.

[Molly]

Since I'm logged in I'll add my current view.  Yes, probably a contemporary aged very well and sufficient to fool the auction house.  More to follow Wednesday evening.

[JHeath]

Molly , appears to me to be some wood replaced above the lock, a good job of it though.
Nice rifle,

Bob

How would a stock get damaged there? The stock otherwise looks too pristine to have kicked around Tennessee for 200 years. It's almost like the builder patched an inletting error. I've seen stocks blown out on the bottom from the mainspring failing. Is there a reason the side of the stock would break above the sear?

[Molly]

I see what appears as a repair there but I'm not sure it is.  Really poor photos, pulled off the internet, printed and then scanned to be able to post them.  We'll see in two days!  Some of the other guns being offered came out of the same collection.  Personally, I do not view any of them to be quality originals.

[Daryl]

Enlarge the lock picture.  The lock's inletting is just too darn good imho and the lock panel lines still sharp.

[bama]

I also think it's contemporary but looks like it was made by somebody that is no novice.

[oldtravler61]

  The rifle does have Soddy characteristics. But the butt plates comb lacks the true shape. Should come down longer on the side. IMHO

[cdwalker]

That is not an old hog rifle. For one the triggers are contemporary and so is the powder drum. Nice rifle though and I do believe the maker had soddy on his mind!!!

[Molly]

Saw it today and there are many features that do not show like the photo.  First, there is no repair behind the hammer.  Secondly, the metal has a lot more age showing that the pics and it is quite irregular.  In some spots deep corrosion.  Wood has probably had some degree of cleaning and maybe refinishing but it blends very well.  It has been update to shoot however.  Bore is as good as new and yes, the nipple is new.  The rounded front of the comb appears to have been "bobbed"
I think it was originally rounded and subsequently squared off.  I know the point where the rod enters the stock would most likely be rounded not blunt. I wanted to remove the lock but the guy threw a hissy fit about that.  Note the 3rd photo below.  There is really no butt plate however the tow plate wraps around the toe and extends an inch or so up the butt end.  Between that the the "cap" on the top is just wood.  Also note the way the screw heads have been filed to the angle of the drop at the top of the comb.  As to the drum, disagree that it is new.  Obviously the nipple is but don't think so on the drum.  Also at the nose the wood tapers from the front edge of the first thimble outward to the nose.  I wish it had not gone through a refresh of the bore but it still is very appealing.  I'm (or hubby) are players for it.  What should the max bid be?  Just for kicks.

I'll try to ad some photos later.  All in all it's still a neat rifle.

[Stoner creek]

There’s something not right about the barrel to breech plug area in my eyes. The gun looks uncomfortable at the muzzle too. The lines of the buttstock are still pretty crisp for an antique. I’m still lightly leaning Soddy but some weird stuff is going on with this one. Either weird or very unique. I’m a contemporary guy so don’t lean too heavily on my observation. I would pay a contemporary price for this one just to be safe.
W

[wvmtnman]

I’d say contemporary restock using some original parts.

[Avlrc]

I’d say contemporary restock using some original parts.

Most likely.

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  .. This rifle is interesting to me,.. the first photos I saw screamed "contemporary" with a great job  of "antiquing" ... but the new photos made me change my mind,... long 3-screw barrel tang is Soddy, the heel of the butt-plate is Soddy,.. the diamond cross-section of the butt is Soddy,.. Most Soddy rifles were used as target rifles, cleaned immediately after competition, and stored until the next shoot,... they were named, well loved family members, and most 120 year old rifles from that region are still in immaculate shooting condition,.. as is this rifle,... now the most interesting feature,.. in his 1970 published document on Tennessee Rifles, Robin Hale shows a rifle on pages 15 and 16 that was reputed to be made by known gunsmiths Clark and Horne at Waldens Ridge , just north of Chattanooga and near Soddy,.. this gun has the same two-part butt-plate,.. look up the photos in the booklet and compare,...  I wish I could examine this rifle ... regards, ... CCF

[Old Time Hunter]

.. This rifle is interesting to me,.. the first photos I saw screamed "contemporary" with a great job  of "antiquing" ... but the new photos made me change my mind,... long 3-screw barrel tang is Soddy, the heel of the butt-plate is Soddy,.. the diamond cross-section of the butt is Soddy,.. Most Soddy rifles were used as target rifles, cleaned immediately after competition, and stored until the next shoot,... they were named, well loved family members, and most 120 year old rifles from that region are still in immaculate shooting condition,.. as is this rifle,... now the most interesting feature,.. in his 1970 published document on Tennessee Rifles, Robin Hale shows a rifle on pages 15 and 16 that was reputed to be made by known gunsmiths Clark and Horne at Waldens Ridge , just north of Chattanooga and near Soddy,.. this gun has the same two-part butt-plate,.. look up the photos in the booklet and compare,...  I wish I could examine this rifle ... regards, ... CCF

Thanks for your observations as well as some Soddy history !  Is the inside of the "heel cap" /top of butt plate, filled with pewter?    Thanks

[Molly]

Actually, it looks to be pewter but to say "filled with"...I'm not sure.  From looking at the one photo it looks more like a pewter sheet bent and pressed over that section of the stock.  Note the small end cap to the back.  It looks as if it is actually "tacked" on with very small nails.

[Molly]

Dana and all:

Hubby just found a pdf of that publication on line.  It was and is in the archives of the ASAC.  Hale called that feature one of the most unusual one ever seen, referring to the two piece butt plate.  While the one shown differs the feature is unmistakable.  Never seen or even heard of it before.

You can download the pdf for future reference.  Also the ASAC has a good website which has copies of much, if not all, of their articles.

Molly

[Old Time Hunter]

Actually, it looks to be pewter but to say "filled with"...I'm not sure.  From looking at the one photo it looks more like a pewter sheet bent and pressed over that section of the stock.  Note the small end cap to the back.  It looks as if it is actually "tacked" on with very small nails.

Thanks

[Gaeckle]

There’s something not right about the barrel to breech plug area in my eyes. The gun looks uncomfortable at the muzzle too. The lines of the buttstock are still pretty crisp for an antique. I’m still lightly leaning Soddy but some weird stuff is going on with this one. Either weird or very unique. I’m a contemporary guy so don’t lean too heavily on my observation. I would pay a contemporary price for this one just to be safe.
W

My big question mark concerning this is the amount of pitting on the tang, but no where else. One would would expect to see a good amount of corrosion around the area of the drum and considerable wear around the stock, but there doesn't appear to be. There is, however, a goodly amount of pitting on the tang, plus there is a distinct color change between the tang and the barrel. It is an odd duck and seems to have more questions than answers. I would insist on taking out the lock despite any hissy fits. Just doesn't pass the smell test unless more examination can be done.