2f powder

[walt53]

So I have a 28 gauge smoothbore ,it has an l& r lock and a white lighting touch hole liner that I drilled out to5/64 “.presently I’m using 3 f to prime and main charge and all works fine.when I use 2 f for main charge the pan flashes but the 2 f in the main charge does not want Togo boom.I don’t know if it’s my powder or what it could be.any suggestions would be appreciated.thanks in advance. Walt

[Standing Bear]

What FFg powder?  I use Goex and Schutzen FFg in.36 and .40 and on up to 20gauge flintlocks as well as a .40 flint pistol.  4F for prime. 1/16” toucholes all.

First thought is that your FFg powder needs more heat to ignite. You are using real BP in a flintlock, Right?  Either a different FFg or something is interfering with the heat from the pan flash.

Next is your breech plug. Is it flat faced?  Does the plug interfere at all with the flash channel? Some plugs are too deep and the flash channel is restricted.

 Or is the plug a “patented “ or chambered one. If chambered the more coarse FFg May be bridging on the entrance to the plug where the 3F gets through.

If it is the plug it can be removed and the face adjusted by milling or filing. A chambered plug can be cleaned, polished and tapered to prevent bridging.

If you can get a bore scope. Some connect to a smart phone you can do a screen shot.  Good be luck and let us know what’s found.
TC

[walt53]

I think my breech is ok but maybe thinking I could be over oiling,causeing fowling buildup on first shot even though I clean with alcohol before shooting.i notice when cleaning after shooting hailing trouble getting the breech clean.May be I need to invest in breech scraper.Or change my cleaning technique and start flushing the barrel ?That might be my problem?walt

[Jeff Murray]

If the face of your breech is right up against the back of the touch hole, and you oil heavily between shooting sessions, that could contribute to your problem.  You might use your touchhole pick (or a small diameter wire) to see where the face of the breech lies in relation to the hole itself.  Also try flashing the pan a few times before you load to make sure everything is dry.  You also might try 4F for flash powder.

[Pukka Bundook]

2F in the pan with a decent lock should work fine for you Walt.
that's all I ever use.  A good cleaning may be required if touchhole is very close to the plug.

[walt53]

I’m seriously considering a flint flush kit from track and a breech scraper,I think flushing is the best way to clean black powder guns.still lots to learnin this game.Good to keep the mind working.Thanks for all the help,walt

[James Rogers]

I’m seriously considering a flint flush kit from track and a breech scraper,I think flushing is the best way to clean black powder guns.still lots to learnin this game.Good to keep the mind working.Thanks for all the help,walt

Made by our own David Crisalli. 
http://www.luckybag.us/MagneticFlushTube.html

[Daryl]

I think my breech is ok but maybe thinking I could be over oiling,causeing fowling buildup on first shot even though I clean with alcohol before shooting.i notice when cleaning after shooting hailing trouble getting the breech clean.May be I need to invest in breech scraper.Or change my cleaning technique and start flushing the barrel ?That might be my problem?walt

I think you might have answered your own question.  ALL of my barrels are removed for cleaning and the breech end gets dunked in a container (pail) of cool water. Water is sucked into the bore through the vent right up to the muzzle, then all that is blasted out the vent, over and over again- 5 to 8 times. Then I dry it on the outside, then  inside with 4 to 6 patches, then liberally spray WD40 down the bore until it drips out the vent, then with another clean patch, I blast the excess WD40 out the vent, several times with full length strokes on the rod, then wipe down the outside of the barrel with the WET WD40 patch, reinstall the barrel and lock(after it is also cleaned), done. I then store the guns thus cleaned, on their muzzles as ANY excess oil drains out the muzzle. I have NEVER had a misfire on the first or second shots when using this cleaning/storage regime, no matter how long the time span between cleaning and shooting again.  At Hefley Creek Rendezvous one year, I failed to place my .36 muzzle down after cleaning and reinstalling the barrel & due to excess oil in the white lightning liner, I had difficulty getting the gun to do off the first time - seems likely the same problem you are having. I will note that once I got the gun to do off, no further problems with ignition.

[walt53]

Daryl ,how long do you guys leave your guns muzzle down after oiling.In my black powder gun I tend to over oil a lot ,scared they well dust I guess. Walt

[Daryl]

They remain muzzle down in the gun room until used again.
I would think if this was not possible, a couple to 3 days would likely work. 
The 2x4 the muzzles sit on, is oil soaked, so it works.

[Magungo1066]

I have a rifle that I love that is finicky with 2f in the pan. With 3f it is as reliable as a centerfire. These things are like women we have to grit our teeth and do what they want if we know what is good for us. I scraped the face of the breach and now I dont really have a problem priming with 2f, but I have gotten in the habit of using 3f with this gun.

[Dphariss]

To protect bores in storage I use G-96 Gun Treatment have for about 60 years now. Its maybe a little heavier than WD-40 but is a better rust preventative. I have taken to removing barrels, hooked or not, unless a really long thin breech tang. Putting the breech in a small plastic bucket with enough water to cover the vent by an inch or two. Can give the bore a good shot of window cleaner or put DW liquid, just a little in the water or just use water.  Then wipe dry, squirt in some G-96, enough to pool at the breech. When it appears at the vent I stand the barrel muzzle down on a multi-folded paper towel while cleaning the lock. This will drain the excess. I run patch up and own to see how it looks. This stuff will pull out anything you might have missed soI sometimes put in a little more and scrub it with a patch them wipe mostly dry. Assemble and stand muzzle down overnight. If loading for hunting I wipe dry then wipe with an alcohol. Make sure it dry and load. I use well refined tallow or pure Neatsfoot oil. I put some oil on the patches and let them soak overnight so they are not very wet. Just oily. If using a rifle with a patch box I use tallow. Loaded like this the rifle, if kept dry, will be good to go for all hunting season where I live. But I usually only let it go 2-3 hunting sessions max. Depending on weather. I then shoot the rifle at the end of the day and clean.
I shoot FFF is almost everything. My 16 bore rifle gets FF.

[Jeff Murray]

Why not try 4F for priming.  Also make sure your priming powder does not cover the touch hole.  The finer grain of 4F allows you to shape it in the pan so the fire goes towards the touch hole.  Little things make a difference, particularly with flintlocks.

[Daryl]

As with Fletch's testing, I have found no difference in ignition speed that I can tell, if the vent is covered or not. I just fill the pan and close the lid, cock and fire.
I use 4F only, if I have it (I generally do), but have used 3F at times. It works too.
I have not found one granulation to be more hydroscopic than the other. Others say they have.
All BP fouling sucks the moisture from the air, no matter which is used.

[william ackerman]

The only time I had misfires was when I did not run a pick into the flash hole to open up the powder so the fire from the pan could go into the powder charge.  On the misfires, I noticed flakes of powder were blocking the flash hole and did not ignite.

[Daryl]

About 2F for prime. I did, the odd time when I ran out of 4F, use 2F for priming in the .44. I noticed more fouling around the pan from the use of 2F, over 4F. This might have simply been
due to the less exuberance of the 2F, in comparison and not blowing the fouling away. I found I had to check the vent after priming, to ensure it was not blocked with fouling from the
last shot.  If I didn't check it, I got a flash in the pan now and then, (not every time) and when looking at the vent, there was a "piece" of hard fouling blocking the vent.
This had NEVER happened when using 4F for priming.

[lou helsel]

  I shoot pistols a lot, I use Swiss 4F for prime, The difference in prime may be the difference between a 10 and and an 8. I shoot 2 rifle matches a month and 2 full weeks at Friendship and my wife shoots almost as much, Our rifles are flint as well as 30% of the shots at Friendship.  We use about a pound every 2 1/2 years. Sure ignition is worth the effort.     Lou Helsel

[Bob Roller]

A bit of trivia. WD as in WD40 stands for WATER DISPLACING and Daryl's idea is one I used as well and it works.
I made a vent from bearing grade bronze with a 1/4x40 thread and a counterbore of .375 to seat it and the hole was 1/16"and reamed with a 5/0 tapered reamer from the back side.When loaded there were granules (3fg) that could be seen and the small Ketland lock I made was very fast and the shot was like a caplock as far as speed was concerned.I wish I had kept that rifle but sometime all is not as hoped for and I so;d it.
   We wish ALL on this forum the best possible transition to 2023.Put more water in the soup,better times are comin'.
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

  I shoot pistols a lot, I use Swiss 4F for prime, The difference in prime may be the difference between a 10 and and an 8. I shoot 2 rifle matches a month and 2 full weeks at Friendship and my wife shoots almost as much, Our rifles are flint as well as 30% of the shots at Friendship.  We use about a pound every 2 1/2 years. Sure ignition is worth the effort.     Lou Helsel

Lou, although tests showed almost imperceptible speed differences between 3F and 4F for prime, I feel better using 4F when I have it.
I have not noticed it to gather moisture any faster than 3F for priming, as after firing they are about equal at that. All BP fouling is a moisture magnet.

[walt53]

Thankyou all.As most of you know powder is hard to get especially where I live,there’s one guy in Edmonton AB.that sells and the last two times he got a shipment it went real fast.Im for sure gonna try some 4 f in the pan but for now all I have is3f and it wont make the 2f fire in my smoothbore with a whit lightningTH liner and L&R lock ,and I made the hole in my liner 5/64.Only other thing is we have very high humidity hear with all the lakes.I have 20 gauge with a3/32touch hole and I have no ignition problems at all with it.these smoothies keep a guy thinking that’s for sure,and busy too.All good right. Walt

[Daryl]

Walt, you will find Ken also has Swiss priming powder called Null B.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=56206.0

[Dphariss]

I use FFFF or Swiss Null B if can get it. I can tell FF in the pan for FFFF. Maybe its imagination. But its all in heat rise and FFFF is FOUR TIMES as fast in free burn rate over FF (FF has much less surface area, about 1/4, than FFFF per grain of weight, BP is surface burning and the more surface area a charge has the faster it burns. so the heat rise is faster, its also cleaner than FF or FFF. These tend to put more fouling on the stock, breech of the barrel and lock than FFFF. I use all the pan will hold. A friend of mine set in on a discussion of the “less v more” priming and said that Wallace Gusler stated “I fill it up”. I always have too. It give more area for the sparks to strike and more heat win-win.

[Daryl]

Pletch's tests also showed a filled pan was faster.  He also tested banking the powder away from the vent that a writer suggested would make for faster ignition, to be completely 180 degrees from reality.
I swear I can also tell the difference between 3F and 4F. Taylor, as well. Maybe it's just a suggestion, but it's there.