Wrought iron for bench copy build

[CooleyS]

A bit of background first, as the story goes my family (Andrew Cooley) bought this half stock plains rifle in St. Louis on their way from Michigan to Iowa in 1836 or 37. I am making a bench copy of this rifle, along with my 83 year old father who taught me how to build guns. Needless to say, this is a special build.
My question is regarding wrought iron. The original rifle has a two piece brazed and riveted buttplate and a forged triggerguard. Having never forged anything, this will be a learning process. I have several old wagon wheels and parts. Some of the metal rims and hubs appear to be wrought iron. I’ve included photos of how it breaks, what it looks like polished and also browned. There are black inclusions in the metal that I’m not sure what they are.
Is this quality wrought iron that could be used to make my buttplate and triggerguard?
If anyone knows of a good craftsman that could make the BP and TG out of wrought iron, I’d be open to that as well. But I am hoping to do this build completely with parts I’ve made (minus barrel and lock).

[CooleyS]

Here are some pictures of the original buttplate and triggerguard…the rifle is shown on top of some old J&S Hawken plans, not because I’m claiming it to be a Hawken, but because there are many similarities in the stock profile and it helps in making my own set of plans/drawings.

[Daryl]

Good luck with the build!!

[rich pierce]

What’s wrong with the current buttplate and guard? Or are you making a copy?
It looks like wrought iron of modest quality. I use the spark test. Wrought iron has its own sparking pattern on a grinding wheel.

[CooleyS]

It is a bench copy build, I'm not re-building the original...no way I'd do that! Thanks

[rich pierce]

It is a bench copy build, I'm not re-building the original...no way I'd do that! Thanks

I admire your dedication in deciding to use wrought iron. I’d suggest some practice work on regular mild steel. Little trade secret is that electrical conduit split lengthwise makes forming brazed “iron” buttplates pretty easy compared to starting from bar stock. You could get all the little kinks of how to do it resolved before going big.

not that I’d ever consider such a shortcut

[HighUintas]

That's an exciting project, and very cool family heirloom. How about some more pictures of that rifle?

[CooleyS]

It is a bench copy build, I'm not re-building the original...no way I'd do that! Thanks

I admire your dedication in deciding to use wrought iron. I’d suggest some practice work on regular mild steel. Little trade secret is that electrical conduit split lengthwise makes forming brazed “iron” buttplates pretty easy compared to starting from bar stock. You could get all the little kinks of how to do it resolved before going big.

not that I’d ever consider such a shortcut

Lots of practice is in the works for sure, I'll most likely be able to supply an armory with butt plates and trigger guards by the time I'm satisfied with the results of my work. Thanks for the tips...I'll take all the tips, advice and suggestions I can get!

[CooleyS]

That's an exciting project, and very cool family heirloom. How about some more pictures of that rifle?

As requested, here are a few more pictures of the rifle. It is .51 caliber, 7 lands and grooves. About 2” of the breech has been cut off and a new lock with a drum and nipple set up installed at some point in its life. Originally it was percussion, and judging from what left of the rear fence it was a J&S Hawken-ish “conquistador helmet” style bolster (again, not sayings it’s a Hawken, just trying to paint a picture of what things look like on the rifle). No markings anywhere on the rifle. Please let me know if you have any other questions or would like other photos of anything.

[Daryl]

VERY cool! What a treasure.

[flinchrocket]

Very cool old gun. I’m curious, what diameter is that barrel a across the flats?

[CooleyS]

Very cool old gun. I’m curious, what diameter is that barrel a across the flats?

The barrel is slightly swamped. Currently it is 1.09” at the breech. Originally (before the barrel was cut off) it would likely have been 1.11 (almost 1 1/8”) to or so. Tapers to .98 then flares to 1.02. Original barrel length would have been 35 5/8”. Thanks for your interest.

[flinchrocket]

Thank you Mr. Cooley. I have a 15/16 hooked breech plug that I could very easily make look like yours. I have been looking to use it on something but wasn’t quite sure what. I think I may have found what to do with it. 

[B.Barker]

Wrought iron came in different grades that had varying amount of "junk" in the iron. Most of the junk is silica. Wagon wheels are a $#@* shoot from what I've been told. Some are really good and some are really poor. Also some wrought was made to be hot formed and some was made to be cold formed. The only way to know what kind you have is to start forging a piece of it. The trick to forge wrought is keep the piece hot. Not red hot but nearly white hot. If you don't it likes to delaminate when you are hammering it. I have a large amount of old bridge iron and it is pretty good stuff but not the best grade. I also have some other pieces some square stock and round stock. Not sure what the round stuff was originally used for but it is really nice stuff to work. Wrought has a grain like wood and you need to pay attention to that when working it. Also you can't make tight ninety degree bends. It needs a radius not a huge one but it needs a radius. If you have some specific questions pm me and I'll tell you what I can. I'm no pro but I have used wrought to make axes and gun hardware.

[CooleyS]

Wrought iron came in different grades that had varying amount of "junk" in the iron. Most of the junk is silica. Wagon wheels are a $#@* shoot from what I've been told. Some are really good and some are really poor. Also some wrought was made to be hot formed and some was made to be cold formed. The only way to know what kind you have is to start forging a piece of it. The trick to forge wrought is keep the piece hot. Not red hot but nearly white hot. If you don't it likes to delaminate when you are hammering it. I have a large amount of old bridge iron and it is pretty good stuff but not the best grade. I also have some other pieces some square stock and round stock. Not sure what the round stuff was originally used for but it is really nice stuff to work. Wrought has a grain like wood and you need to pay attention to that when working it. Also you can't make tight ninety degree bends. It needs a radius not a huge one but it needs a radius. If you have some specific questions pm me and I'll tell you what I can. I'm no pro but I have used wrought to make axes and gun hardware.

Thank you, I appreciate the information and I’ll take you up on that offer!

[Dphariss]

Old iron can be full of all sorts of slag, etc. Old steel is often little better. I have seen late 1880s Winchester barrels that had several full length lines in the bore, I suspect from $#@* in the bars with drawn/rolled out. Having had to weld some guns for repair, these from the mid-1860s to the 1870s I can tell you trying the tig weld is a nightmare. I once had a piece of bar I was making a SAA sight from actually break at an unseen inclusion line. Nice clean break while filing. But it was still high enough for make the sight. It was a round bar from a knifemakers scrap pile. Don’t know if it had enough carbon to rate as steel or if it was iron <10 point carbon is iron in the modern world. One reason I don’t shoot antiques much anymore.
But this should not be a hinderance to your project. Hope this goes well for you. Its an admirable project.
If you use a store bought drum make sure its well supported by the lock plate. I learned this lesson when I was in my late teens.  For this good iron is better than the stuff usually used today. And any rebate must be radius cut not “corners”. Best if made of a good grade of hot rolled steel.