Author Topic: A interesting flintlock (Read 3252 times)

Steeltrap · « **on:** February 03, 2023, 09:16:06 PM »

https://simpsonltd.com/st-etienne-takedown-coach-flintlock-m10042/

Daryl · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2023, 09:30:30 PM »

Yes indeed. 15.7mm is .62" (.618"actual).

RAT · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2023, 03:07:44 AM »

Bolt Action?

What's the deal on the brass section at the muzzle?

Shouldn't this be in the antique section of the forum?

Daryl · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2023, 05:55:36 AM »

Looks like a flint lock to me. Appears to be an original, in exceptional condition.

Dphariss · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2023, 06:04:46 AM »

Pretty cool self-defense gun.

Keith Zimmerman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2023, 10:06:51 AM »

Pretty neat.

Steeltrap · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2023, 04:17:59 PM »

Quote from: RAT on February 04, 2023, 03:07:44 AM

Bolt Action?

What's the deal on the brass section at the muzzle?

Shouldn't this be in the antique section of the forum?

#1---Consider the source of who's writing the description.
#2---They ran outta "regular metal"?
#3---I dunno. Looking at historical builds is always a part of gun building

Just thought it was interesting.

Daryl · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2023, 04:49:13 PM »

I agree absolutely, wonderful "coach gun" as described. I think I would prefer a larger bore, though. It may be been a shortened gun due to a blown barrel, and the brass muzzle piece added to gain some more length along with a bell for loading in a moving carriage?

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2023, 06:27:23 PM »

The take down at the wrist doesn't make sense to me with the trigger guard screwed in place.
Normally coaching carbines have about a 20 inch -24 inch barrel.
Daryl,
a 20 bore would be plenty at the few yards to the horseman attempting the hold up.
I think you are right about a damaged arm saved in this manner at some time, but I might be wrong!

Best,
Richard.

Steeltrap · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2023, 07:45:37 PM »

The way the TG is installed would appear to me that if the user is not careful, that "cut" in the TG which allows the "takedown" appears to be an odd design.

Daryl · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2023, 07:56:27 PM »

Quote from: Pukka Bundook on February 04, 2023, 06:27:23 PM

The take down at the wrist doesn't make sense to me with the trigger guard screwed in place.
Normally coaching carbines have about a 20 inch -24 inch barrel.
Daryl,
a 20 bore would be plenty at the few yards to the horseman attempting the hold up.
I think you are right about a damaged arm saved in this manner at some time, but I might be wrong!

Best,
Richard.

I agree Richard a 20 bore would work just fine, but an 8 bore or 4 bore would be much more impressive, visually, just before the shot. That Uh-OHHHH moment

taterbug · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2023, 09:28:18 PM »

I'd be interested in how the 'take-down' feature was supposed to work. I see the plates in the wrist, assuming it comes apart there. Just wondering how, or what keeps it from becoming an ungainly pistol at exactly the wrong time?

Steeltrap · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2023, 11:57:04 PM »

I assume it's just a "twist on, twist off" type of setup and should the alignment get "wonky" some type of shim would be put in place to keep the aforementioned "wonky" from occurring.

baw · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2023, 05:55:50 AM »

In my opinion this is not a "coaching gun" but rather an assassin's gun, sometimes called a "poacher's gun". There is no reason for a coaching gun to have a takedown stock, but every reason for an assasin's gun to have one - to be able to hide it on your person, under a cloak or overcoat. The muzzzle of the iron barrel undoubtedly has female threads that the brass piece screws into. Every other assassin's / poacher's gun I have ever seen had an extension barrel of perhaps a foot long that screwed on. It is likely that the brass piece on this one was created to replace an iron extension which has become lost.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2023, 07:10:00 AM »

Baw,
We hear of "Poacher's guns" but no poacher had the money to get a gunsmith to make him something special. They did this at home out of old junk guns usually.
This by way of saying the better quality were not poachers guns.

I have seen a few good quality guns that take down at the wrist, but none would require the trigger guard removing as does this one.

Best,
Rich.

baw · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2023, 07:33:17 AM »

I agree completely with Pukka Bundook's statement regarding the quality of so-called "poacher's guns" indicating that they were not made for poachers, which is why I referred to them first as "assassin's guns" and "sometimes called poacher's guns". The idea of a poacher's gun is rather absurd to begin with, as even if one's gun was hidden, walking down the road carrying a dead pheasant and a couple of rabbits would be something of a tip-off. What makes me believe that they were made with murder in mind is the fact that I have even seen one with a removable socket bayonet which fit into a compartment in the stock when not in use.

James Rogers · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2023, 07:56:42 AM »

Here's an earlier Dutch takedown with the split trigger guard

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/73/1285/silver-mounted-takedown-flintlock-fowling-piece

James Rogers · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2023, 08:02:31 AM »

And here's an English takedown by Parkes with the split trigger guard.

RAT · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2023, 06:05:08 PM »

Assuming take down guns were made specially for political assassination is pure movie fantasy. If a long gun was made to take apart, it was made that way to make it easier to pack while traveling.... and that's all.

baw · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2023, 12:44:09 AM »

I neglected to mention that I have seen two specimans with folding butts which were equpped with belt hooks.

James Rogers · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2023, 12:54:56 AM »

Small bayos in a butt trap go way back in sporting gun history.

JV Puleo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2023, 02:13:08 AM »

Quote from: James Rogers on February 06, 2023, 12:54:56 AM

Small bayos in a butt trap go way back in sporting gun history.

Absolutely...I've seen the catalog of a French or Dutch auction in the 1730s where the bayonet in the butt stock is specifically mentioned. You also see such guns described as "officer's fuzees"...which is also a misnomer. They are simply fowlers with a tiny bayonet conveniently carried, presumably to finish off wounded game without having to reload the gun.

A full length fowler would be pretty difficult to carry in a coach...more so if it was a public coach and crowded.

Steeltrap · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2023, 02:35:37 PM »

In looking at the rifle https://simpsonltd.com/st-etienne-takedown-coach-flintlock-m10042/ when I zoom in in the side view and bottom view it seems the trigger guard (in addition to the barrel extension) has been repaired or attempted to be repaired. The TG at the separation point just doesn't seem to flow, or be at the same width as the rear stock TG piece.

OF course, it's tough with the limited photos, but just something that I noticed.

PhDBrewer · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2023, 09:08:36 PM »

This apparently was made to conceal. Belt hook allows carry and it locks when straightened. Very beautiful workmanship also. Was told Italian made early 1700's. Not sure of bore size, but it is intimidating!

William

Steeltrap · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2023, 12:03:14 AM »

WOW! Don't load it.....just pull it out and point it.

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Author Topic: A interesting flintlock (Read 3252 times)