Author Topic: A newly acquired English Rifle (Read 3124 times)

Mattox Forge · « **on:** February 10, 2023, 03:20:14 AM »

The rifle I bought in Holts November auction arrived today. This is my first full stock English rifle. I cannot find any information on J Pendrill in any of my English gunmaker listings. I am guessing this was built in the 1760's.

The bore is in good shape and the lock is a nice sparker. This is the first English gun I have seen with thin sheet brass ramrod pipes with formed ribs as opposed to thick sheet with filed in ribs or cast. The tail pipe is essentially a regular pipe with a tail brazed on to it. The proof marks are private proofs I assume. They are not London proofs as the Holts listing states. The lock is exactly the same size as the Chambers English Fowler lock.

Mike

Steve Collward · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2023, 03:49:53 AM »

Mike,
I believe the "V" & "P" proof marks are private Birmingham proofs. Looks like that barrel has pretty deep rifling.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2023, 03:57:31 AM »

Nice. I like English rifles. Can you share bore size and length? Thanks for posting.

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2023, 04:12:40 AM »

Sorry I forgot to put the barrel specs up. The barrel bore is .635", the rifling diameter is .665", and the twist is 1/2 turn in 35.3125 inches, or 1:70.625. The barrel is 36 inches to face of false breech.

James Rogers · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2023, 04:57:38 AM »

Thanks for sharing these pictures. That's a nice length on that barrel. I have seen another by this fellow and it also had a 36" barrel if i remember correctly.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2023, 05:15:27 AM »

Any chance this could be a re-stock? There are some odd characteristics to the stocking, at least when compared to typical fowling pieces of the period.

Thanks for posting.

Jim

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2023, 06:01:34 AM »

Jim,

That might be possible. There is a lot of obvious late repair work done to the stock. There are small wood replacments to the barrel channel sides. The finish is probably recent. I don't think it's a total restocking, but it is most likely the victim of a major refurbishment as is wont to happen in the UK. What in particular were you looking at?

Mike

smylee grouch · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2023, 07:10:05 AM »

Thanks for the specs on the barrel Mike. Of intrest to me it looks as though the cross section of the lock panels flair out at the rear instead of the front as I have seen on a little later English guns. Or maybe I'm seeing things. $:-\$ $:-\$

Niall · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2023, 02:16:40 PM »

Glendinning(1951) lists an I. Pendrill c.1740 but doesn't give a location. I notice the frizzen has had a new face brazed on so it's been well used.

The lock has the earlier long sear spring. Have you any photos of the internals, for interest?

smart dog · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2023, 03:29:41 PM »

Hi,
Very nice rifle and so rare a find! Based on the lock and other hardware, I would guess it was made well before 1750. Sheet metal pipes were not uncommon nor 2-piece rear pipes. Sometimes the rear pipe would be sheet metal but the tang was cast. I suspect your rear pipe was repaired at some point because it is rather crudely soldered. I also wonder if it was restocked. The moldings around the lock are fairly wide, typical of a later date and the comb transition to the wrist is not well defined. Is there a front sight?

dave

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2023, 04:28:26 PM »

Here are the lock photos. I added a comparison to a Chambers lock. The frizzen has been refaced. It has two plugs drilled all the way through the original steel.
Good eye, Smylee! The stock side panels are 1.960 at the rear and 1.860 at the front.
The front sight is inset with a tiny little "spider" type setting.
Mike

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2023, 05:50:06 PM »

The stocking made me question restocking based on the general architecture and carving. As mentioned, the lock and side plate panel shaping is not typical of English work of the period. The forestock looks heavy as compared to typical fowling pieces (from view at muzzle). I also find it odd that the stock extends flush with the end of the barrel. The carving in some ways looks okay, but in other ways, it makes me question it. The moldings that define the lock and sideplate panels are larger than I would expect. Some of the curves on the tang carving are a little bit clunky as well (carved lines near barrel). Overall, there is just a feeling that it lacks the refinement you would expect on such a piece. Might be the case or might not...

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2023, 10:28:53 PM »

It is definitely heavier is section and in actual weight than the later English guns I have handled. It is more like some of the German pieces I have handled of the same period (ca 1750) in both workmanship and overall finish, not quite as nice as a London gun. The fit up and finish is more like a well made Brown Bess than a London or even later Birmingham commercial arm. I attribute that to the provincial nature of its origin. The lock is top quality, and the barrel is well made if not somewhat crude when compared to a later piece. I think that we are seeing what Col Hawker was talking about when he discussed the relative merits of the Birmingham trade vs the London trade. Birmingham individual parts were fine, but the Birmingham workmen lacked the finesse of the London makers when it came to final fit and finish, and perhaps even design. Incidentally, the ca 1760 Pendrills I found reference to were from Wolverhampton.

Mike

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2023, 11:04:17 PM »

I don't know, I've been away from the English guns for a while, but I don't think there was a big drop off of architecture and carving on Provincial guns from this period. Perhaps a little in terms of how finely something was finished, but seems to me they generally followed a similar pattern.

Hopefully James Rogers will chime in. He'll be much better at discussing this.

Jim

Bill Paton · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2023, 11:26:31 PM »

Good discussions on this intersting rifle.
The rifling twist rate of 1:70 surprises me. I have understood that English and Contenintal twist rates in the 18th and early 19th centuries tended to be considerably faster than American rates. Few American longrifle twist rates measured carefully by me are as slow as one turn in 70”. I am interested in responders' thoughts.

Bill Paton

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2023, 12:05:52 AM »

Bill,

I did a quick and dirty measurement by pulling a tight patch with a ball-bearing handled cleaning rod. I'd be interested in learning other methods of measuring rifling rates.

Mike

Niall · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2023, 12:11:18 AM »

This gives a good indication of the stock architecture you would expect https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/gun-of-the-day-pendrill-breechloader

RAT · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2023, 12:15:23 AM »

The outside of the barrel is heavily pitted (but over-cleaned and bright), and the rifling looks dark (rough/pitted), but the crowning seems very bright and clean. Maybe it's just the way the light reflects of of it in the photo, but it looks like it was re-crowned.

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2023, 01:39:33 AM »

It does appear to be re-crowed to me as well.

Mike

smart dog · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2023, 02:15:36 AM »

Hi Mike,
Those are private Birmingham proofs. You can see examples in Blackmore's "British Military Firearms" appendix D. Wolverhampton is right next to Birmingham and home to many gun lock and barrel makers.

dave

Dan Fruth · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2023, 05:30:15 PM »

Beautiful piece Mike. Love that English wrought iron! Do you plan to shoot it?

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2023, 06:06:46 PM »

Dan,

Thanks. Yes I do plan on shooting it. The bore is in excellent shape, and the lock is a great sparker with excellent springs.

Mike

smylee grouch · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2023, 08:25:46 PM »

Wow what a great Bear Gun that would be.

Mattox Forge · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2023, 02:03:38 AM »

Further examination of the stock indicates that the gun has been restocked. The big clue was the extra holes in the ramrod pipes. Hard to land in the original holes. Good news and bad news. Bad news it has been restocked. Good news is that I get to continue the restoration and make the stock look right. Fortunately the restocker left a lot of extra wood, so the finer details can be corrected. The horrible lacquer stained finish is not original, I am relieved to find out. The metal work is very consistent with and in great shape. Thanks to Niall for posting the link to the NRA museum's Pendrill rifle. The lock, side plate, and trigger guard are all very similar to mine. The rear sight is almost identical.

Mike

Bill Paton · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2023, 03:10:07 AM »

Mike,
I sent you a PM about issues surrounging rifling twist measurements.
Bill Paton

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Author Topic: A newly acquired English Rifle (Read 3124 times)