Identifying old rifle

[lthrjones]

I am a corrector and shooter, but I know that there are many out there with more knowledge than I.  So, I am looking for some help in identifying an old rifle.  A friend of mine who is 78 years old has a rifle that belonged to his grandfather, and he remembers it being shot when he was a child.  He has asked me to try to identify it for him.  His family originally came from central North Carolina before moving to the mountains.  The rifle has many characteristics of the Jamestown School of rifle building from Guilford County, but there are some things that simply do not fit, and I don't have the expertise to know.  Here is information on the rifle:
1:  Barrel is octagon and 39 i/2 inches long
2.  Barrel is hammer forged and is not an early factory produced barrel.  .36 caliber with 7 lands and grooves.  Tang is 4 3/8 inch long with a rounded end and fastened with three screws (indicative of  Jamestown).  It is percussion with a drum and nipple, but may have been shortened at the breach as it seems shorter than other Jamestown rifles that I have observed as having 42 or 44 inch barrels.  Barrel is not swamped.
3.  Rifle configuration is currently a half stock with a under rib.  Stock is curley maple. Overall length is 55 1/2 inches and furniture is brass.  The ramrod pipes, toe plate, and butt stock seem to be of a yellow brass but the trigger guard seems have a higher copper content.  The trigger guard is also of matches the early Jamestown School style rather than the later style trigger guard.  The nose cap is 6 inches in front of the ramrod entry pipe and is grooved for the ramrod.  It shows that it was originally mounted with one rivit in the bottom of the groove but is now mounted with two rivets angled in.  The lock is a commercial percussion but does not fit the lock mortise well.  I believe it to have been changed in the past.  Lock is held on with one screw only whose escutcheon is a simple small brass washer.  Lock dimensions are 4 5/8 long by 1 inch wide.  There is no half cock.  The mainspring to the tumbler does have a stirrup though and no fly.  Triggers are set with the back trigger being very curved and the front perfectly straight.  There is no override on the trigger.  You can only use it as a set trigger.
4. Here are the things that make no sense to me:  Even though the rifle has a number of diamond shaped inlay on the fore arm and the wrist of the rifle, there are two that make no sense.  One is apparently a flattened engraved vent pick holder that has been mounted on the right side of the stock opposite the cheek piece.  The other is a club (like playing cards) on the cheek piece that has the information pertaining to a sergeant in the Massachusetts   volunteer infantry during the Civil Way.  Also, the cheek piece is rounded rather than linear like the other Jamestown rifles that I have seen pictures of.  I am thinking that this may be an earlier rifle that was rebuilt as a half stock at a later date.  Along with the rifle is a powder horn that is banded with a beehive plug.  The plug is unusual in that the actual plug is flush with the back of the horn, but  a 3/4 inch hole through the center is female threaded to take the male thread on the flat end of the beehive so the horn can be filled from the rear.  When assembled, the joint is not even noticeable.  I understand that this is a central North Carolina trait as well and may be from Salem.
Any ideas, information, or places to look for information would be greatly appreciated  Thank you.

[Dobyns]

pictures are needed!

[mbriggs]

Please post photos and I will try to help you.

Most half-stock percussion Jamestown rifles have round cheekrest so that is not unusual.

The other comments will have to wait for pictures.

Michael Briggs

[lthrjones]

Thank you for the response.  It will take a couple of days to take the pictures but will forward them before the end of the week.  Thank you again.
Luther Jones

[lthrjones]

I am going to attempt to post pictures:  New to the forum and not sure of what I am doing.



































I hope this is what you can use.  I am not the most computer savvy person around.  Thank you again for all of your help.
Luther Jones

[T.C.Albert]

Oh my, that horn is a treasure too. With the rifle that's really a wonderful set.
The measures and bullet mold just add more good smiles to it. Thanks for sharing it.
Tim A.

[mbriggs]

Hello Luther,
Thank you for taking the time to post photos and descriptions of your friends longrifle and wonderful powder horn.

In my humble opinion, the rifle was not made in Jamestown. The maker of the rifle had some talent, had seen some Jamestown rifles and wanted one.  He made a good effort but did not get everything correct.  The stock architecture is not exact. The three screw rounded barrel tang is correct, but the trigger guard and triggers are not the correct shape. The cheek-rest is rounded but not in the shape used in the Jamestown School. Jamestown silver inlays come in many forms, but the inlays on this rifle are unlike anything I have found on the Jamestown rifles I have seen.

 


The photo above shows the typical half-stock Jamestown School rounded cheek-rest for comparison.



Thank you for showing the wonderful powder horn. Please tell your friend to please reach out to me if he ever wants to sell it.  I have owned many Piedmont North Carolina Banded Horns. I have not seen one by this horner. What County did the horn come from?  I own large a militia powder horn from Mecklenburg County, N.C. that has a rear plug that unscrews for fast refill that is similar in style to your friends horn, but was made by a different horner. 

Here is my book on Jamestown rifles.





Here is my book on North Carolina Powder Horns





Here is the screw off plug on my Mecklenburg Militia powder horn.





I am giving a program on "The North Carolina Schools of Longrifles and Powder Horns" on Saturday, March 25th from 3 to 5 pm for the Orange County Historical Museum
at the Eagle Masonic Lodge - 142 W. King Street - Hillsborough, N.C.  The Museum is charging $20 to attend and will be serving refreshments.  I hope you and your friend can attend.

Thanks,

Michael Briggs
mbriggs@callcoverage.com

[lthrjones]

Michael,
Thank you for all of the information.  Longrifles are not my expertise of collecting, so I know just enough to make mistakes and know that I should contact someone that is more knowledgeable than I am.  Apparently this gentleman's family migrated to the mountains from what is now Iredell County, in the area that is now Lake Norman.  That could be why the powder horn is similar to one that you have from Mecklenburg County.  Since they are adjacent, this may explain the similarities.  You say that it was made by a different horner.  If you don't mind me asking, what would I look for in comparing two horns of a similar style to determine whether they were made by the same person or different craftsmen?  Again, thank you for your interest, information, and trouble. I will ask him if he wants to sell the horn, but I doubt if he will.  To him the rifle and horn are a pair and a family heirloom that have been passed down.

Luther Jones

[satwel]

The inlay on the cheek piece looks like a Civil War era Corps Badge. The three leaf clover was the badge for the 2nd Corps.

[lthrjones]

That is exactly what it is.  I am just trying to figure out why a corps badge from a northern regiment got on a southern rifle.  I am working with the owner to see if we can trace one of his ancestors to having been in the same place and the same time as the information on the badge.  The stamped engraving on the badge has the following information:  3rd Brigade, Louis Bitzer, Company B, 20th Regt. Mass. Vols.  The club badge was the shape used by the 2nd Corps of the Army of the Potomac. This unit was in the 2nd Corps.  Records of the unit show a Lewis Bitzer, age 26 from Boston being a sergeant in this unit,having enlisted on July 26 of 1861 and mustered out on July 16 of 1865.  It is up to genealogy and family history research at this time to try to figure it out.  Thanks for the interest and comment.
Luther Jones