Author Topic: Where do you think this was made?  (Read 1909 times)

Offline bama

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Where do you think this was made?
« on: March 08, 2023, 04:49:20 PM »
Here’s a nice family gun that came into the shop for a little work. A family in Georgia bought me rifle to do some minor repairs. This rifle has been in the family for over a 100 years and they just wanted it fixed up for the family. It has one of the most unusual cheek pieces that I have ever seen and the stock architecture is a good bit different. So far the thought is mid west but hopefully someone will know where this gun may have been built. I added the trigger guard and lock hammer, repaired a few cracks and some minor touch ups. Other than that it is as it came into the shop.

















Jim Parker

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Offline Avlrc

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2023, 04:56:27 PM »
WOW, that is an unusual cheekpiece. The bottom profile of the stock looks like some Honakers I have seen. 

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2023, 08:17:01 PM »
Has quite a few Elisha Green attributes, especially the lock panel.  Green lived in SW NC, SE Tenn, and Northern Georgia (Fannin County).
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Offline Avlrc

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2023, 03:50:52 AM »
The underbelly of the buttstock looks a little like this one.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=75127.0

Offline bama

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2023, 01:37:04 AM »
I have received some more info from the family about this old rifle. I have copied the info to the forum. Please feel free to comment.

Hello Rick, (Black)
  It's your cousin David.
    The story of the long rifle is an interesting one and probably some tall tales in the making.
When I was a small boy, I found the long rifle in the attic of my parents' home in Kittanning Pennsylvania. I'm guessing 1968.
It was on the attic floor and had cardboard boxes sitting on top of it covering three quarters of the rifle.
  I did what any boy who was fascinated by old weapons would do; I immediately freed the rifle of the boxes covering.
it and examined the rifle. It was an amazing old rifle that still had patches in the compartment in the stock of the rifle. I asked.
my mother about the gun and she knew nothing about the gun other than it came from the Black farmhouse.
  In the early 1970's it was moved to a corner or the finished basement. My brother and I would try to hold it up to our shoulder,
the rifle was heavy, and it wasn't an easy task. We would challenge anyone who said they wanted to hunt to try to hold the rifle.
to their shoulder. We then tried to hold the rifle over our heads using one hand. The television show Planet or the Apes was on at that time, and we would try to mimic the Ape holding and M-16 over his head using the old rifle.
  It was probably around 1972 that someone working on the house asked to examine the rifle and told us that it was loaded and looked like it started life as a flint lock and was converted to cap and ball.
  My mother could never give any real history on the rifle. One day when your dad was visiting, I brought the rifle to him, remember he was the only person I knew who had any knowledge of firearms, he also is the one who first taught me to shoot a pistol. I asked him if he knew anything about the rifle, he put on his glasses and examined it thoroughly. He looked at me and said I think this @!*% thing was used by our great, great Uncle in the civil war. To that your Aunt Jean replied really Richard and he replied yes.
  Both your father and I would be surprised to find out that it was dated around the 1850 time period. We believed it was older than that, but remember we are not experts. What I was able to find out, it was made in a small shop by an unknown gunsmith in Western Pennsylvania. At that time all guns were still made by hand and the parts were not interchangeable. I believe there was a local gunsmith in the area that today is Rural Valley Pennsylvania, the great Uncle that was fabled to own the rifle was a schoolteacher who went to fight for the Army of the Potomac during the War between the states. I have heard two different versions of the story. One the great uncle came home and resumed teaching, the other he died of dysentery in Kittanning on his way home and never made it back to the farm.
   All I that I can confirm is that it belonged to a great uncle last name Black, it was made at a local shop and for some reason we thought it was much older. The land grant from England was in 1812 or at least that is when the Black family came to Pennsylvania. Your father told me that it belonged to a great great uncle who fought in the Civil war, and he believed this was his rifle and it was used in the war.
  It's sad no one ever documented the history of this rifle. If it could only talk it could tell some interesting stories. As a young boy and even a young man I inquired about restoring this weapon. Everyone told me the same thing including your father. They always said it was in too bad of condition to restore and if it was restored it would ruin its value.
   In closing, I'm sorry I don't have more information on the rifle, I always like it even as a small boy. I sent it to you because it belongs to the Black family.
  If it wasn't for your father, my favorite uncle. I wouldn't have the general knowledge of firearms I have today or the collection of weapons that I now possess. The reason for me wanting an M1 Grand was due to your dad bringing one to the house and taking my brother and I out back to the woods to shoot it. His Gold Cup was the first pistol that I fired. I have since learned different shooting styles and drawing techniques; however, your dad spurred my interest in firearms and was my go-to guy as a young man. Many times, after he passed, and I shot a perfect score on a weapons qualification I would think of your father.
  If I can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely

    Your Cousin

Dave Bellotti
Jim Parker

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Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2023, 02:15:21 AM »
Firstly, Jim, thank you for showing us the rifle; it is a very interesting gun and looks pretty Southern in some respects. Then, thank you for sharing the family story about it and the value it holds within the family. Those are always nice to hear. Would like to see the photos of it when you complete your work on it. Lastly, where were you hiding at the Lass Vegas
Show? We looked but didn't find you. Hope all is well in Alabama.
Dick

Offline bama

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2023, 05:42:51 AM »
Dick unfortunately I was unable to make it to Las Vegas this time. I would love to go back out there for the show, maybe next year will work out. I hope you had a great time. The pictures I posted have the work I did to the rifle. I added the trigger guard and the lock hammer, fixed a few cracks in the stock and rubbed a little oil into the old dry finish to help bring the finish bask some. This old rifle has never been cut back or modified in any way that I could tell. Just an honest old rifle.

Jim
Jim Parker

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Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2023, 09:47:29 AM »
We'll Jim, you certainly did it right because the work is totally undetectable, (as it should be). Do come to the next Winter Las Vegas Show as it promises to be bigger and better than it has in a long time. A big Arizona show, held at the same time, has now combined with Vegas to hold both as one show. I can't wait! There were some good things at this past show, (I found a bargain Wheeler, Trade Gun about 1820 and brought it home) and others made some astute buys too. Do hope to see you there next January for sure. Meantime, stay well, happy and prosper.
Dick       

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2023, 06:08:15 PM »
We had a Honaker rifle made in Raliegh County WV in the shop one time years ago with similar architecture. I have pictures somewhere? moodyholler

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2023, 07:23:54 PM »
I know I saw a rifle or photos of a rifle with that type of cheek rest but for the life of me I can not remember where I saw it. I remember it because I had never seen one like it before.

Maybe it was yours at a show for all I can remember!
Dennis
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Offline Mule Brain

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Re: Where do you think this was made?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2023, 04:45:19 PM »
Thanks for sharing this rifle and what history it known. It appears to have similar attributes to my rifle from West Virginia. It has similar traits to a Leman, especially the forward lock panels






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