Alternativ for lead roundball ?

[Rolf]

It seems they going to outlaw lead bullets and roundballs in Norway.
Are there any alternatives to lead??

Best regards
Rolf

[alacran]

Bismuth, there are other alternatives, but Bismuth is the closest thing to lead. PB is 82 BI is 83.

[tooguns]

Don't try large steel ball bearings! They ricochet!  In the 1970's I worked with a guy who got me started in muzzleloading. He shot a large ball bearing out of a smoothbore musket, it came back at him he heard it whizz by

[foresterdj]

Back in the early 1980's, my cousin bought a colt cap and ball revolver. It was bitter cold when he got it, so he and another guy were sitting in a pickup while loading, then opened the door to fire out at a stack of oak firewood. At one shot, my cousin heard the other guy go "ough", they looked and the slightly flattened lead round ball was laying on the seat of the truck. Rebounded enough so the guy felt it enough to know he was hit.

So this does not give you any alternatives for lead, but it came to mind after reading the previous post.

[wolf]

i heard of a man who shot a deer with a BP rifle, the deer need finishing off. the man pulled his cap and ball revolver and shot the deer between the eyes, the lead ball bounced off and hit the man in the shin bone hard! he was jumping up and down cussing!

[Mike Brooks]

It seems they going to outlaw lead bullets and roundballs in Norway.
Are there any alternatives to lead??

Best regards
Rolf

New government would work.

[Don Steele]

Brooks NAILS it.
Thanks Mike.
That’s all I’m going to say. All you’uns got the idea.

[alacran]

Back to Rolf's question, leaving out unmentionables and politics, Rotometals.com carries Bismuth. Also, there is tbammo.com, they sell lead free ITX alloy round balls in common sizes. Rotometals lead free alloys and ITX are legal in California, so they will probably be legal in Norge.

[Dale Halterman]

Are you shooting a rifle or smooth bore? If a rifle, the alternative must be soft the upset into the grooves. Not sure if bismuth or the other alternatives would work. Does anyone here know?

Dale H

[Bill in Md]

Personally I would ignore all such decrees and stock pile as much lead as possible.....let those more submissive comply to such foolish over reach......b

[Daryl]

Seems to me, Bismuth is a wee bit too brittle to work, but might.  Whatever ITX uses is quite hard.
If small enough, a thick patch would be all that is needed for a "sealing" combination.

[Scota4570]

There is no soft metal substitute for lead.  This is a possible poor substitute.  https://tomboboutdoors.com/product/50cal-itx-roundball-12pack/   They are super hard and to large to lead easily.  They are also lighter than lead. 

A fast twist barrel with a sabot and a copper bullet is more satisfactory. 

There is no evidence that ML lead balls are a toxic danger to wildlife or humans via ingestion of meat so harvested.    Any such "evidence" has been fabricated.  I was in on the California ban as a scientist.  The person who presented the "evidence" that bullet lead was killing condors was a shill.  She fabricated the data.  She then destroyed the data before it could be reviewed.  All I can say it fight it as much as you can. 

[axelp]

I did a bit of testing with bismuth roundball and yes 100% bismuth is too brittle. But an 80/20% mix bismuth and lead free solder, will hold together ok. ITX roundball works ok but it requires careful loading... I live in CA and we have been under a lead ban for hunting since about 2008.

Good luck

Ken Prather

[bob in the woods]

Gold 

[alacran]

Gold would definitely work Bob.
There is an article in Muzzleloader March/April 2019. It is written by Peter Andresen. He lives in California and his article covers using a Tom Bob .524 bismuth ball in a Pedersoli .54 Jaeger. I won't recapitulate his story, but suffice it to say he killed a 250 pound pig at 78 yards. He says that the ball went through the shoulder blade and hit the aorta and both lungs exiting through the opposite shoulder.
 You can get more info from tomboboutdoors.com. Also, there are quite a few posts in Muzzleloading Forum, both informed and uninformed  about the product.
Ken Prather's recipe is discussed as well.
I do not live anywhere where non toxic shot is required for anything other than waterfowl. But if I had the opportunity to hunt in California, I would learn how to use such ammo.
When you are a nonresident it is best to abide by the hunting regulations.
I remember the first time I hunted ducks in Lake Okeechobee. The USFWS filmed everyone going in and out at the boat ramp. Made an impression.

[Frank]

Pewter.

[mark esterly]

don't think pewter would fit the bill.   old pewter is 30 % lead

[GrizG]

It seems they going to outlaw lead bullets and roundballs in Norway.
Are there any alternatives to lead??

Best regards
Rolf

I see the same problem on the horizon. New York has pending legislation in the State Senate that has already passed in the Assembly that bans lead for hunting on state lands and on all lands that are in the water shed for NYC. That wipes out almost everywhere I hunt for whitetails and upland game (the counties along the Hudson River and up into the Adirondacks). Combine that with the ban on carrying firearms on private property without explicit permission and even getting to the private property upon which I have permission is difficult. This as I cannot gain permission from the new owners of the property where I formerly entered. I now have to enter from the worst side in regards to wetlands, steep slopes and nearby residences. In addition to muzzle loaders I have cartridge guns in calibers for which the factories will never load lead-free ammunition. Lead free bullets for reloading those cartridges are unlikely also. No more small game with .22 rimfire either.

I know that Jon Laubach switched to pewter for the musket balls he sold to the National Park Service. The Park Service sold them as souvenirs. I never asked him if pewter was a viable choice for actual shooting... it wasn't a pertinent question at the time.

[Dutch Blacky]

In germany there are regulations (based on EU-legislation) that ban lead for hunting on state lands and on all lands that are in the water sheds (also non pemanent ponds or wetlands / swamps
A lead ban for target shooting  is in discussion.

For hunting purpuses commercial lead free ammunition is availible, but there are no good alternatives for muzzleloaders. Maybe pure pewter might work for target shooting at 25 or 50 yards. It is not necessary to have a certain energy  for making holes in a sheet of paper. 

I did not test if patched  pewter  balls will work, but I guess a lead ban for muzzleloader shooting will be a big problem.

[Mike Brooks]

Hmm. Gold. I think the black powder maniac shooter should do the shooters of the world a service and make a video on shooting 24 karat gold round balls.

[Hungry Horse]

 Food safe modern pewter is cheap, and easy to find. Junk stores, and antique shops, usually have a bunch of lead free pewter wine glasses, and mugs, that have been engraved as trophies for some long lost event. Buy a couple, they’re usually cheep, and go cast some balls. You might want to get yourself some designated casting tools to cast “lead free” bullets. Because you never know how sensitive the states lead detecting equipment is.

Hungry Horse

[Marcruger]

I believe that some “lead free pewter” is aluminum. 

[Hungry Horse]

Not if it is marked lead free pewter. It is primarily tin, but does have a small amount of some other food safe metals.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

I heard, but do not know, that for waterfowl, the game branch is simply using a magnet.
I do not know if all the lead-free shot is magnetic, but I think not.
 (bismuth and tungsten, for instance?)

[davec2]

Of all the people on the planet who should not give a good tinkers @!*% about lead bullets, it should be the EU.  That ground has been fought over so many times by so many armies since the invention of gunpowder I would be really surprised if you couldn't find a hand full of lead bullets with any shovel full of dirt you cared to dig up. 

This is not about protecting animals or people from lead poisoning....I hope I am not the only one who sees the handwriting on this wall.....