Author Topic: Rifles on Display at the Alamo  (Read 2924 times)

Offline Jdbeck

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Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« on: May 18, 2023, 10:02:59 PM »
I had the opportunity to check out the Alamo recently, I also made a YouTube video of the experience.



But I figured I’d share the pictures of The Dickert signed rifle, supposedly recovered from the Battle, most definitely a restock or parts gun and Fess Parker’s rifle:

Dickert Signed rifle with Ketland Lock:












Fess Parker’s rifle:










Offline WESTbury

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2023, 10:43:35 PM »
Jd,

Great stuff and thanks for posting the pictures and the video.

I've always regretted not visiting the Alamo when I was stationed at Ft. Hood in 1970, big mistake.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2023, 02:27:03 AM »
JD, great presentation! Thank you for sharing your findings with us here. Been awhile since I went to the Alamo and it is everything and more that you say about it in your film.
The Dickert rifle is right for the time and many did head west. Not sure why the consensus seems to be that it is a restocked gun. Dickert made plain rifles in addition to the fancy carved pieces that we all know and love. The wood on the Alamo gun looks well aged and used hard as we might expect. Architectural styles had softened in the early to mid 1800s and a Roman nose profile is not necessarily out of the ordinary. A collector in Colorado has a plain Dickert with Rev War history and was also a western expansion rifle. So, guess I am saying that the Alamo piece looks okay to my ancient eye. Thanks again.
Dick

Offline Jdbeck

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2023, 05:38:49 AM »
I appreciate the insight yeah it looked different than I was familiar with, but that’s even cooler if it is all original! Man if that rifle could talk!

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2023, 02:23:47 PM »
Wow, displays are a far cry from what we saw when we visited 25-30 years ago. At that time the only good displays were of many original and contemporary bowie knives. As well as I remember few if any of these were attributed to being in the battle. I would love to go back but at my age I doubt I will make it.
Dennis
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Offline mbriggs

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2023, 04:40:01 PM »
I am sorry, but the video touched a couple of nerves with me.  If anyone wants to learn more about the Alamo, I urge you to purchase and read the William C. Davis book "Three Roads to the Alamo." The book provides the true history of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis and how they got to the Alamo and dispels many 1950's myths I (and many of you) grew up with. 

Like many of you I grew up in the 1950's watching Fess Parker play both Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone on tv.  For many years I thought they were the same person.  I also watched and enjoyed the John Wayne movie version. Much of this programming were based on popular myths.

As the book referenced above explains, there was no such person as "Davy" Crockett.  There was a David Crockett. Hunter and Congressman from Tennessee. "Davy" is a Walt Disney creation sold to us kids in the 1950's.  There was also an actor in the 1830's in the play "Lion of the West" who may have used the name "Davy."

Also surprising from the book I learned that James Bowie and his brother were two of the largest land swindlers in U.S. history.  Much of the land involved in the 1803 Louisiana Purchase by Thomas Jefferson was once owned by Spain, but later deeded over to France under Napoleon and sold by France to the U.S.  James Bowie and his brother forged so many false deeds in Louisiana, that for many years a fake deed was referred to as a "Bowie" claim.

I visited the Alamo about ten years ago and the new museum does look to be an improvement over what I experienced.  Sorry for my rant.

Michael Briggs       
C. Michael Briggs

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2023, 05:03:48 PM »
Like many of you I grew up in the 1950's watching Fess Parker play both Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone on tv.  For many years I thought they were the same person.  I also watched and enjoyed the John Wayne movie version. Much of this programming were based on popular myths.
Michael Briggs     

Oh sure Mike! I bet that next you are going to tell us that Big Mike Fink and the River Boat Pirates never existed and that Johnny Tremain had nothing to do with the Liberty Tree!  ;)

I think I'm showing my age. There was not much to watch when we had only KDKA and another TV channel in Pittsburgh.

"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2023, 05:40:46 PM »
Begs the question, who was the King of the wild frontier anyways? 8)
Dan

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Offline Bigmon

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2023, 06:22:52 PM »
Truly hallowed ground.  I have always wanted to visit but probably never will.
My Grandaughter visited there this spring with her JrROTC group.  I had her bring me back a small handfull of soil, which she was able to do.  I told her and her Dad to be sure and put it in my casket with me when my time is up.
Love the Alamo!

Offline lexington1

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2023, 08:57:23 PM »
We were just at the Alamo a month ago. Cool place, but I would like to see it improved upon. I'm kind of stumped why they would roof the church, when that wasn't how it appeared at the time of the battle. They do have a gun exhibit, but it too could be represented by the exact types of guns that were used. For instance they have a Baker rifle, but it is sort of cobbled together, with the patchbox being filled in, and it appeared to be musket bore, etc. They had an 1860 Colt in the display too. Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but just feel it could tell the story a bit better. I really like a couple of the bronzes that were exhibited.











« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 09:02:22 PM by lexington1 »

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2023, 09:22:29 PM »
Makes me want to jump a plane an see it. As to the book "Three Roads to the Alamo" it is a must read for anyone interested in that period.
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Jdbeck

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2023, 10:47:39 PM »
I am sorry, but the video touched a couple of nerves with me.  If anyone wants to learn more about the Alamo, I urge you to purchase and read the William C. Davis book "Three Roads to the Alamo." The book provides the true history of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis and how they got to the Alamo and dispels many 1950's myths I (and many of you) grew up with.

Michael Briggs     

There is a reason the clubs have an aging population, and antique guns will become less valued. Far too long has the “old guys” shunned and criticized the new generation.

Briggs my Video isn’t meant to be a History lesson, nor is it meant to attract your generation. My ultimate goal is to inspire younger people and share my experiences.

Utilizing popular culture such as the moniker of “Kentucky Rifle or Davey Crockett” rather than the appropriate Pennsylvania Long Rifle and David Crockett increases the odds it is viewed by a younger audience. It’s all for fun! Don’t take life so serious😂

😂
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 10:53:44 PM by Jdbeck »

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2023, 01:40:08 AM »
Briggs my Video isn’t meant to be a History lesson, nor is it meant to attract your generation. My ultimate goal is to inspire younger people and share my experiences.
😂
Jd,
This country needs more videos like yours, of your trip to the Alamo, and for many other American History subjects, as our history and culture is fading away with every year that passes.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
Kent
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 04:29:55 AM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline John Cotterall

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2023, 03:25:40 AM »
Great pictures and looks like a great display. Dickert worked around Lancaster but the comb looks like a Lehigh or Upper Susquehanna. I am still learning as I go. There is clearly a patch of wood replaced at the rear of the lock molding. Is that because the lock was replaced or just that a broken chunk of wood was replaced? Also seeing this original shows some slight imperfections in the engraving which is encouraging for me. Makes me feel better about my work ;) Thanks for sharing your experience 🙂

Offline JBJ

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2023, 02:18:51 PM »
Although it does not deal with the period of the Alamo, some of you might find it interesting to read NARRATIVE
OF THE LIFE OF DAVID CROCKETT, OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE, written by "himself" and published in 1834. A copy may be downloaded at https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/37925/pg37925-images.html. I found it interesting. BTW, this is the 6th edition according to the fly leaf.

J.B.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 01:55:08 PM by JBJ »

Offline alacran

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2023, 02:39:18 PM »
I am sorry, but the video touched a couple of nerves with me.  If anyone wants to learn more about the Alamo, I urge you to purchase and read the William C. Davis book "Three Roads to the Alamo." The book provides the true history of David Crockett, James Bowie, and William Barret Travis and how they got to the Alamo and dispels many 1950's myths I (and many of you) grew up with. 

Like many of you I grew up in the 1950's watching Fess Parker play both Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone on tv.  For many years I thought they were the same person.  I also watched and enjoyed the John Wayne movie version. Much of this programming were based on popular myths.

As the book referenced above explains, there was no such person as "Davy" Crockett.  There was a David Crockett. Hunter and Congressman from Tennessee. "Davy" is a Walt Disney creation sold to us kids in the 1950's.  There was also an actor in the 1830's in the play "Lion of the West" who may have used the name "Davy."

Also surprising from the book I learned that James Bowie and his brother were two of the largest land swindlers in U.S. history.  Much of the land involved in the 1803 Louisiana Purchase by Thomas Jefferson was once owned by Spain, but later deeded over to France under Napoleon and sold by France to the U.S.  James Bowie and his brother forged so many false deeds in Louisiana, that for many years a fake deed was referred to as a "Bowie" claim.

I visited the Alamo about ten years ago and the new museum does look to be an improvement over what I experienced.  Sorry for my rant.

Michael Briggs     
Interestingly I just finished reading Seth1's reply to "was David Crocket ever called Davy Crocket? on this Forum. Very enlightening.
A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.  Frederick Douglass

Offline cshirsch

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2023, 10:24:05 PM »
I thought I already posted here about this but do not see it now.  I had the opportunity to handle and closely inspect the 'Dickert' rifle in The Alamo.  It is a restock using parts from an earlier Dickert made rifle.  It was probably restocked in the later 1820s.  IMHO

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2023, 11:09:46 PM »
Thanks Chris, that explains a lot about the gun. Since it was an early restock it likely was carried to the Alamo in that condition. It's a nice rifle and certainly not to be disregarded because it was restocked. Alamo associations cast a big shadow.
Dick

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2023, 01:04:38 AM »
Thanks for sharing. You did a good job.

Offline JTR

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2023, 02:47:02 AM »
I thought I already posted here about this but do not see it now.  I had the opportunity to handle and closely inspect the 'Dickert' rifle in The Alamo.  It is a restock using parts from an earlier Dickert made rifle.  It was probably restocked in the later 1820s.  IMHO

Chriss, Thanks for that. The lock facing and other areas pretty well said not original Dickert.

JD, sometimes on this forum, it's difficult to convey thoughts with words that actually convey what you mean to say. Both in comments and replies. Should be no sweat for either party in the long run.

John
John Robbins

Offline Bob Gerard

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2023, 04:20:25 AM »
Thanks for these photos!
I was surprised at the robust lock panel on the Dickert rifle. I had thought lock panels were more commonly narrower than these. Pretty cool piece of history.


Offline JTR

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2023, 05:31:47 AM »
More typical Dickert lock panels, 1790/1800 ish.


John Robbins

Offline cshirsch

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2023, 07:43:47 PM »
Thanks for these photos!
I was surprised at the robust lock panel on the Dickert rifle. I had thought lock panels were more commonly narrower than these. Pretty cool piece of history.


Some builders in Western PA did that.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2023, 09:11:04 PM »
 When I toured the Alamo years ago I understood right away why they built the River Walk so close by. Its because you need that many bars to forget the experience. The exhibit seems a little better now, but obviously they still like to scramble a couple hundred years of history, and legend, into one big sideshow.

Hungry Horse

Offline dadybear1

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Re: Rifles on Display at the Alamo
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2023, 09:46:01 PM »
IM A DEVOUT TEXAN AND THE ALAMO IS A SHRINE (HERE) TO THE BRAVERY OF THE PATRIOTS WHO FOUGHT/ AND DIED FOR INDEPENDENCE!!!  THAT BEING SAID---THE MUSEUM WAS FILLED WITH KNIVES AND PERCUSSION GUNS( THINGS I DID NOT SEE AS SIGNIFICANT) TO THE TIME PERIOD!!!   A CROCKET RIFLE(THE FIRST OL BETSY--NOT BEAUTIFUL BETSY) WAS DISPLAYED AS A HALFSTOCKED PERCUSSION RIFLE...MUSEUM GOT THE GUN THROUGH DONATION YEARS AFTER IT HAD BEEN WORE OUT-PATENT BREECH INSTALLED-STOCK SHORTENED,AND CONVERTED TO PERCUSSION!!!!  OF COURSE THERE WERE OLD GUNS THERE-AND THE PUBLIC WAS NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE PICS DUE TO SANCTITY OF THE SIGHT...  NO WHERE WAS THERE AN ORIGINAL BOWIE KNIFE--ETC...  SO MY POINT IS COMMERCIALISM!!!  THE FACT IS,CROCKETT LEFT HIS BEST GUNS AT HOME--AQUIRED SEVERAL OTHERS FOR THE TRIP TO TEXAS WHERE HE SOLD THEIR SERVICES TO THE NEW REPUBLIC...YOU CAN BET THEY WERE ALL GOOD RIFLES AT THE TIME AND "FLINTLOCK"---DEPENDABLE FOR A 50 YEAR OLD PATRIOT AT THE TIME---ENOUGH OF MY SOAPBOX---LOL  JEFF IN TEXAS--REMEMBER THE ALAMO--FOREVER!!!