Woodsrunner .....Decoration progress...lock polishing info

[davec2]

Added a toe plate and did some of the brass work engraving.  Annealed the frizzen and polished the lock parts to get them ready for engraving.






Will need to stop work for a few weeks now.  Will pick up again in June.

[Bryan Enoch]

You sure do some great work.  I enjoy reading all about it from your first questions and then responses to seeing your carving as you progressed.  Barrel work, brass, and engraving.  Wow!

[Crow Choker]

I wanted to get a head start on browning the barrel.

While I was finishing the recently completed .36 cal rifle, I ran out of the Laurel Mountain Browning solution that I have used successfully in the past.  Recent attempts to re-order more have met with a lot of "out of stock" and "back ordered" responses. 

That Woodsrunner will look as nice with your fine work as all of the other rifles I've seen you post about when finished. But, FWIW regarding LMF Browning solution, I recently was in the need to order more, checking around came up with the 'out of stock/backordered' responses as you. Saw a post recently that Muzzle Builders Supply had in stock. Called, owner advised he had just received a 'new box full' recently. Also checked and talked with with Jim Chambers Rifles. They also had in stock, ordered from Chambers as I wanted some of Jim's stock finish also, one shipping fee vs two. That was just back on April 16th, can't say though what the current in-stock situations are at the two businesses.

[davec2]

Crow Choker,

Thanks for the heads up....Nice to have options.  And I have enough ammonium chloride to brown a couple of thousand barrels as well.   

[bama]

It's going to be another great looking rifle Dave. I to am of the opinion that it's your rifle and you should build it to your vision regardless of others opinion's.

[davec2]

Bama,

The fellow I'm making this for is not a gun guy at all....modern or antique.  He was, however, quite enthused when he held a few of my personal rifles and wanted to have one and learn how to shoot it.  So I was more than happy to be of assistance.  He particularly liked the carving and engraving on the other guns.  He has been very good about knowing what he doesn't know about what decorations would be appropriate and what would not.  So this has been a slight tap dance concerning how much or how little "bling" to add to Jim Kibler's excellent kit.  I know it doesn't need any, but it does make an excellent "canvas" for some additional decoration.

[Martin S.]

Dave,

Can you elaborate on your technique for polishing the lock parts, especially the hardened frizzen?

Your work is wonderful, and I enjoy your posts.

Thanks,

Martin

[reddogge]

He'll have the most beautiful rifle at the range, I'm sure.

[davec2]

Martin,

I typically start off polishing a lock by annealing the frizzen.  You can do that with a propane torch just getting it quickly to a red heat and then backing the torch off slowly until the red goes away and then just let it cool slowly to room temperature.  I do this because it is way easier to polish and because I almost always engrave the frizzen which requires the annealing.  Once polished and engraved, I re-harden the frizzen.

As far as polishing goes, I often start by scraping with a modified box cutter blade (see below).  I don't use the blade edge but the 45 degree edges after stoning them to make both sides of the blade a sharp 90 degree edge.  Then I use whatever fine files and riflers I need to clean up the surfaces.  The next step is using these sanding sticks:



They are plastic and spring loaded to hold 1/4" wide sanding belts of various grits.  I have a half a dozen of the sticks and keep one for each of the grits I use.  I use them for polishing lock parts, brass parts, barrels, and stock details.  When polishing metal I usually use them with a light oil.  The belts don't load up as much with the oil.  Here is a link to some available on Amazon but the sticks and belts are available from many sources including jewelry supply houses:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079GHS13V?aaxitk=BjhPW.OfNRwSAJO2fZcH6w&pd_rd_i=B079GHS13V&pf_rd_p=591760d1-6468-480f-9b10-0ee9c85706fd&hsa_cr_id=9367417650701&sb-ci-n=productDescription&sb-ci-v=5%20Piece%20Sanding%20Detailer%20Stick%20Set%20with%202%20Extra%20Replacement%20Belts%20Per%20Stick%2C%205%20Grits%20120%2C%20240%2C%20320%2C%20400%20%26%20500%20Grit%20Made%20in%20The%20USA%20for%20Sanding%20Wood%2C%20Metal%20%26%20Plastics%2C%20Long%20Life%20Sanding%20Belts

And here is a set from Rio Grande.  They also have better belts.....more expensive but better.

https://www.riogrande.com/product/sanding-stick-assortment-set-of-6/337286

I also use stone when I need to ....also with a light oil. 

For the more complicated surfaces on a cock or around the pan, I use a dental handpiece with rubber wheel abrasives.....here is an old post about the handpiece.....

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76816.msg762031#msg762031

And then finally.....and judiciously....I use a polishing lathe with wheels like these (in various grits finishing at 400 grit)......

https://www.riogrande.com/product/dedeco-sunburst-3-3-ply-radial-bristle-discs/326089GP/?_t_id=wDoJn5sUc18DX89AwnjPkw==&_t_uuid=5fc48135-6607-44c2-b0cd-c373eedad99a&_t_q=Dedco+Sunburst+polishing+wheels&_t_hit.id=Commerce_Products_Product/CatalogContent_93a41eab-f13a-4932-93c2-984e8b852538_en&_t_hit.pos=38&code=326088

Scraping:

After initial shaping with files, etc., I scrape most of the surface of brass and some steel parts.  I use the non sharpened edge of a utility blade.  This is a blade being used to scrape brass.  I use the same tool for brass, wood, and steel.  I stone the two 45 degree edges to a sharp 90 and use both sides of those.  Scraping a large butt plate takes about 30 minutes.  Scraping a whole stock to get out file, rasp, or carving tool marks takes about an hour...more if there is a lot of intricate carving to scrape around.  Then I use sandpaper where ever necessary or useful.

Here I am scraping a butt plate with the angled edge of a box cutter blade.  It takes off brass more rapidly and more smoothly than a file and leaves a finish that does not take too much more work with the abrasive paper or sticks.  I do the inside of the trigger guard bow like this as well.  If the part is investment cast, I can start right in with the scraper.  If it is sand cast, I usually hit all the surfaces with a file to knock down the roughness, and then start with the scraper. 

Wood comes off really fast and I have to be careful not to take too much.





As I said, I scrape some steel parts as well.  You just have to refresh the edge of the scraper much more often.

[Martin S.]

Dave,

Thanks for a very detailed post!

Can you tell me your technique to re-harden the frizzen?  That's the part that I worry about screwing up!

[Jim Kibler]

When re-hardening your frizzen, quench in a brine solution.  We only harden the working face and not the pan cover etc.  Also we us no temper.  I'm not sure why the idea of tempering started, but it's never made sense to me.  We've found that with our locks, the harder the better.  Maybe it has something to do with our spring strength etc.

[davec2]

I think either Jim Chambers or Jim Kibler could provide better information about the use of 8620 or 1095 steel for lock parts.  8620 has excellent properties and can be hardened in and of itself as can 1095 (without any additional "case" diffusion of carbon into the surface).  However, I have mentioned in other posts, that when attempting to re-harden frizzens that I had annealed to engrave (and that I believe some were cast out of 8620), I have never been successful following the instructions, as an example, provided by Jim Chambers.  I am not questioning their correctness, it's just that despite my best efforts they have never worked for me.  I have used every available option for heating.....torch, forge, electric furnace with carbon pack, etc.....but a quench in even the correct heat treating oil (as recommended) has never resulted in a frizzen hard enough to produce sparks.  The only way I have been able to get an annealed frizzen back in commission has been to torch heat to a bright red, apply Kasenit to the face, and then quench in brine.  I know that there is a risk of cracking the part with a quench that fast, but I have never broken one yet and it works every time.  Part of the problem may be that in following the recommended procedure I am somehow depleting the surface of the part of carbon and it takes the Kasenit treatment to restore it.  I'm not sure but would welcome any information about how to do this better.

As I said, Jim and Jim, are undoubtedly in a much better position to comment since they are in the business of making locks professionally and I have never had a lock from either that was not top notch.  Jim Kibler's frizzens are, I believe, cast of 1095 steel.  Jim Chamber's are of 8620. 

Jim Kibler's comment here is much appreciated and, on the next go around with one of his locks, I will delete the Kasenit portion of my process.  I also do not draw the hardening of the face and I agree the harder the better.  I use a Presto-lite air / acetylene torch primarily to heat the frizzen quickly to quenching heat.  A hardware store propane torch is a little too whimpy for fast heating. The faster this is done the less fire scale is produced on the part.  Too much fire scale ruins the polished surface.  To eliminate the fire scale entirely I use an anti scale compound from Brownells.  You can also use sodium silicate (water glass) as an anti scale compound and it can be had much less expensively.

I also use iron wire to make a quick handle for the frizzen.  Here I am coating the annealed, engraved frizzen with a ceramic coating so I can reharden the frizzen without a lot of oxidation on the surface.  I do not coat the face of the frizzen as this would retard the quench in that area and the face would not harden properly.