Author Topic: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46  (Read 6993 times)

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2023, 06:37:43 PM »
It's something Bob and I have discussed previously.  You can see the little 'triangle' in Oerter's work (it's almost a necessity when using wire around that area) and you can very clearly see it on the lion/lamb rifle and #42, somewhat on #43 (lots of wear).  Also the "Rochester rifle" that was auctioned a year or two ago.  And the Marshall rifle.  42 and the lion/lamb rifle probably have the clearest, most easily visible examples of it.

When it comes to all these attributions and speculations that we throw around all the time, I feel that it's very important to look for small or almost insignificant details that might be found across multiple rifles.  Maybe they mean something, or maybe not, but it's a place to start.  I don;t know how Scott feels about this - I know we've discussed here the concept of regional style and whether or not various customers or gunstockers may have been aware of it in the sense that we view it now almost omnisciently - but I firmly believe that during and after the Revolution, people all over SE PA were much more aware of what gunstockers in areas outside of their small regional sphere of existence were doing. 

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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2023, 06:43:04 PM »
The more I think about it, this rifle *has the potential* to represent probably one of the earliest if not the earliest example of a gunstocker adapting to the 'expected' style of a region.  We like to talk about this concept all the time but there are not many concrete examples of it, certainly not pre-War or even pre-19th century.  What is unfortunate is that the only signed - and thus documentable - example of Albrecht's work while in either Bethlehem or CS is the signed, converted lock.  So honestly while we may like to speculate as to whether or not he stocked say the Marshall rifle or 42 or 43 or lion/lamb etc., since they're not signed we really can't say for certain.  So we can only assume that he might have changed up his stocking and decorative design after moving to Lititz.  But we can't KNOW.
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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2023, 07:03:26 PM »
Eric,

Thanks, your replies are the ones I been hoping for.

Appreciate all of your remarks.

Kent
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2023, 08:36:59 PM »
The more I think about it, this rifle *has the potential* to represent probably one of the earliest if not the earliest example of a gunstocker adapting to the 'expected' style of a region. 

This is something I was interested a couple of years ago and I may or may not have raised a question about with Bob L. Scott discusses Albrecht's difficulties as relating to his rifle stocking business level in the 1770's. I'm guessing that his apprentices, Levering and Weiss, may have left as a result.***

Albrecht needed something to boost his income so adapting to local customer expectations may have seemed the prudent approach.

Speculation of course.

** Scott did write that they left because Oerter was ill
« Last Edit: June 25, 2023, 09:52:06 PM by WESTbury »
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2023, 08:54:01 PM »
The wildest speculation, in my opinion, is that customers in Lancaster County expected or preferred rifles with particular features, like the stock profile we identify today. There is no evidence from anywhere in early America than anybody anywhere cared about or even recognized such things, let alone made consumer decisions on the basis of them.

Albrecht’s apprentices were relocated a half-decade later, when Christian’s Spring needed men to help with the musket quota imposed on the county. He was having difficulties finding customers in 1771: his apprentices were still there in 1775. I think it’s best to think about gunmaking apprentices in the Moravian context as important because a new generation was being trained, rather than that they were there to increase the amount of product (or to enable the master craftsmen to meet demand). There was never much demand, it seems.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2023, 09:13:47 PM »
Although, thinking out load here, if Albrecht did adapt to Lancaster style rifles why did he not go full bore and use the Daisy Patchbox?  He only went 90% of the distance.

I think that it is impossible to get inside the heads of these old rifle stockers. They were businessmen though so adaptation to markets is important.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2023, 10:32:49 PM »
Although, thinking out load here, if Albrecht did adapt to Lancaster style rifles why did he not go full bore and use the Daisy Patchbox?  He only went 90% of the distance.

I think that it is impossible to get inside the heads of these old rifle stockers. They were businessmen though so adaptation to markets is important.
The earliest English trade rifles (I said rifles not trade guns; I only add this because from time to time there’s confusion) have been described as patterned after Lancaster rifle (s) with wooden patch box(es).  There are several Lancaster-attributed longrifles with wooden boxes. A rifle with a wooden box may have cost a small amount less than one with an engraved brass 4-piece box. Just speculation.
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2023, 11:33:41 PM »
I think that it is impossible to get inside the heads of these old rifle stockers. They were businessmen though so adaptation to markets is important.

I agree that the term "businessman" probably fit somebody like Dickert. But I'd like to hear a case made that we should think of Albrecht as a businessman, since:

Albrecht deliberately chose for most of his adult life--until he was in his mid-fifties--to live in a community in which he could not make any profit whatsoever. He choose, presumably for spiritual reasons, to live in a place where he would never sleep alone (but, instead, in a room filled with other people); where his meals, while guaranteed, would be meager, at best; where others made his marriage choice for him--and, most important here, where others would decide who his apprentices were and what happened to the things he produced and where others earned the profit from his own industry. He chose to make no money.

Did this all change, as if a switch was flipped, when he moved to Lititz in 1771 at the age of 53? Maybe? Some people in Moravian communities left because they could not tolerate economic constraints and wanted to make money. But this does not seem to have been the case with Albrecht (he expressed full satisfaction with the economic arrangements earlier). In Lititz he had to find a way to make a living (for the first time), since no communal economy existed to support him. 

So would he have adjusted to prevailing styles? Would it have even occurred to him that, by adjusting the stock profile and other non-functional details, his sales would have improved? Or would he have recognized that his problem arose because he was (for the first time) competing with a very large number of competent and in some cases prolific gunsmiths in his proximity? Adjusting the profiles of his stocks would not really give anybody a reason to haul themselves to Lititz to purchase a rifle. It seems highly unlikely, anyway.

This rifle under discussion, with the barrel alone signed by Albrecht, is the only reason anybody would even imagine that Albrecht did adapt his style. Indeed, if I understand correctly, the only reason it is dated after 1771 is because of the Albrecht barrel and the unexpected Lancaster-style: all this reasoning is a bit circular, no? Maybe he made this rifle, on a whim, in 1760 when he was still in Christian's Spring?

So, sure it's possible that he adjusted his style after his mid-life move to Lititz. But this rifle is thin evidence, especially coupled with the problem that we don't even know that consumers cared about or made decisions about what they purchased based on regional styles (any more than we care about the shape of functional object, a toilet or a suitcase, that we buy).
« Last Edit: June 25, 2023, 11:54:53 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline DaveM

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2023, 12:16:32 AM »
I suppose anything is possible but in my mind it is a given that the barrel matches the stock. The barrel appears to be a perfect fit and is 1-5/32 across the flats.

My sense is that folks at the time (at least the other makers) knew exactly what dickert was making. Dickert was well known and had a strong market with a product that was known even beyond Pennsylvania and into England. And I would assume that a reasonably savvy builder strugglng with his market share would try to make a product to suit that market. That may be the reason he moved to Lancaster County in the first place.

It would seem to me that this is the only surviving legit gun signed by this maker.  Yet other unsigned rifles that are not signed are attributed to him. And the attributions don’t look like his signed gun.

Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2023, 12:25:31 AM »
Ok, let's assume that this entire rifle is Albrecht's. Let's also assume that he knew Dickert's work, as Dave says.

Option A: He decided to experiment with a Dickert-style rifle in 1764 at Christiansbrunn--maybe made quite a few, for that matter.
Option B: He switched to making Dickert-style rifles after moving to Lancaster in 1771.

How do we going about assessing the probability of A vs. B?


And there are other possibilities, all of them equally possible as B:

Option Aa: He asked Oerter, his apprentice, to make a Dickert-type gun, as an educational exercise.

Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline DaveM

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2023, 12:40:46 AM »
Maybe an option C could be that Dickert, being an acquaintance, helped to integrate Albrecht into Lancaster County gunmaking to increase his customer base by working with him and providing templates?

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2023, 01:02:14 AM »
I do not see any reason to view this rifle as a restock, this after viewing it first-hand.  Caveat - I never saw it prior to restoration.

This is the only rifle believed 'legit' as Dave notes actually signed by Albrecht.  The Bethlehem lock is also signed by him and (I believe) legitimate.  Attributing anything else to him is admittedly speculation.  All of the speculation generally ties back to the signed Oerter rifles 1775/76, and flows from there.

My personal opinion is that he moved down to Lancaster Co and 'when it Rome...'  Whether it was Dickert setting the trend, or someone else, no clue. 

I remain convinced that at least by the first couple of War years, gunstockers were aware of what gunstockers in other parts of PA at least (if not an either wider net) were aware of what other gunstockers were doing and *recognized particular differences.*. Whether this was happening earlier, I have no idea. 

We all do also need to keep in mind that we have no clue concerning the survival rate of rifles ca. 1750-1800 nor do we really know whether some of these guys were cranking out 50 a year or 10 a year or 1 a year.  For this reason I don't think we can call any one more prolific than another and there is really no way - to my mind - to determine who may have been trendsetting vs who may have simply been plodding along.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2023, 01:05:44 AM »
The underlying problem in any such discussion, as always, is that we are trying to recreate a linear, historic development of the automobile having only excavated a tire, a few pistons and perhaps a rear view mirror.
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2023, 01:07:59 AM »
The Lititz authorities discussed what Albrecht was going to do to make a living: they recommended advertising his work and, with the help of others, finding new markets for it out west. (Read here: https://www.immigrantentrepreneurship.org/entries/johann-andreas-albrecht/) They did not mention that he was going to adjust his work, let alone any collaboration with Dickert, which they surely would have given that Dickert was a well-known Moravian from Lancaster. Nor is such a collaboration ever mentioned later. Moravian diaries often mention the movement of one gunsmith to work with another elsewhere, such as when Nathaniel Hantsch leaves the Upper Places to work with an (unnamed) gunsmith in Lancaster or when Albrecht's son stops at Dickert's for a while to study after he leaves Nazareth.

So, sure, it's possible--it's possible, too, that Dickert learned Albrecht's little "tell" and made the stock on this rifle and then attached it to a barrel that Albrecht made.

Any explanation that has Albrecht caring about his "market share" transforms this religious zealot, this die-hard Moravian, who participated in the most radical moment of the church in the late 1740s (a moment that even Zinzendorf disowned), and who explicitly shared their fervent anti-capitalism and anti-wealth ideology, into a modern capitalist who cares about all the things that he didn't care about.

He cared about make a living in Lititz, that's for sure, and gunsmithing wasn't working. I cannot believe that tinkering with a stock profile would be imagined as a good strategy.

BTW, we have some good information, too, about why Albrecht moved to Lititz (and whether that was his first choice). It would a be a puzzling market strategy to move to Lancaster County to make exactly the sort of rifles that were already plentifully available there.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2023, 01:11:27 AM »
I remain convinced that at least by the first couple of War years, gunstockers were aware of what gunstockers in other parts of PA at least (if not an either wider net) were aware of what other gunstockers were doing and *recognized particular differences.*. Whether this was happening earlier, I have no idea.

I don't doubt this at all--that gun stockers in different areas were aware of what each other was doing (though it takes some work to imagine how they would have seen each others' products: but I agree that it's likely).

My point has always been about the customers and whether they (a) recognized these styles or (b) cared about them and made their choices as buyers on the basis of them.

Book designers can tell you a whole history of type-faces and fonts and how some derived from others and when certain ones were popular where. But I don't think any book buyer (of novels, say) ever made a choice of a book on the basis of its type-face. So (a) differences can be real, and important to makers and (b) invisible to customers. Both things can be true.

The (big) mistake would be for book designers of type-faces to think that book buyers are making their choices based on type-faces.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 01:26:29 AM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2023, 01:15:19 AM »
My personal opinion is that he moved down to Lancaster Co and 'when it Rome...'  Whether it was Dickert setting the trend, or someone else, no clue. 

Eric -- So, given that we have this one object, undated, what leads you to think it was made after 1771 in Lititz and not as an imitation of a Lancaster-style rifle in Christiansbrunn in 1764?
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2023, 02:02:31 AM »
My personal opinion is that he moved down to Lancaster Co and 'when it Rome...'  Whether it was Dickert setting the trend, or someone else, no clue. 

Eric -- So, given that we have this one object, undated, what leads you to think it was made after 1771 in Lititz and not as an imitation of a Lancaster-style rifle in Christiansbrunn in 1764?

I can only relpy by saying that it's my 'gut' impression, and that of many others who have studied these rifles for many years, that it is not a 1760s rifle.  I think it is just barely pre-War.  I long ago gave up using the size of the buttplate etc. to attribute date so the fact that it's got back isn't what I would focus upon to attribute date.  I can't offer more than a gut feel which I realize may not mean anything.  Part of the issue is that we truly have no idea how a Lancaster rifle in 1764 may have appeared.  Most of our assumptions of Lancaster work revolve around Dickert and unfortunately I do not know of any signed and dated pre-War rifles with his name on them.

And have I mentioned a rifle attributed to Isaac Haines that sure has a LOT in common with the Marshall rifle?  (I've been laughed at on this one - I can take it  ;D )
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2023, 02:04:42 AM »
And why is everyone ignoring the lock?  It's clearly signed Albrecht in Bethlehem, so as far as I'm concerned it clearly proves he signed SOMETHING prior to his move up to CS.  Well unless he made later it while he was running the inn...
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2023, 02:19:01 AM »
Right—so maybe he signed the lock, and the barrel, around the same time?—had a little “signing period.” Which would place the barrel quite early.

I can’t get my head around the other explanation. I know we have (almost) no signed/dated pre-War Lancaster rifles. But maybe they looked like this? As you say, makers knew each other’s work: Albrecht saw Dickert’s in the late 1760s and modeled a rifle after it while he was at Christiansbrunn—or tasked Oerter with doing so. It resembles Dickert’s later work because his style didn’t change much from just pre-war to war or post-war.

That’s entirely invented, of course. But it avoids the to-me-unlikely explanation that Albrecht adjusted his style to try to market his product more effectively.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2023, 02:43:32 AM »
I'd agree that is a very valid proposal.  Can't really say much else because we're all just speculating.  Sure does render me quite wistful for more signed pieces to manifest, though!
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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2023, 01:53:44 PM »
And why is everyone ignoring the lock?  It's clearly signed Albrecht in Bethlehem, so as far as I'm concerned it clearly proves he signed SOMETHING prior to his move up to CS.  Well unless he made later it while he was running the inn...

I was away from my computer for five hours last evening so I was pleasantly surprised to see all of the back and forth on this subject.

In my view, if Albrecht was not averse to putting his name and location on the face of the lockplate, is it such a stretch to consider that he marked all of his work?

To me, that leaves open the possibility that the barrel on #46 is possibly older than we think, although it is not marked Bethlehem or Lititz. I'm not sure that he had the facilities in Lititz to make his own barrels. Perhaps he purchased the rifle barrel and marked it with just his name.

Do we have dimensions of the marked lock? Is it rifle size or pistol?
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
President Lyndon B. Johnson October 21, 1964

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2023, 02:50:02 PM »
It's in one of the books although they're not in front of me so I don't recall if the length is listed or not.  I measured it many years ago but don't know where those notes are either!  It's pretty good sized though - I think roughly 6" long, off the top of my head.  The forward nose is shaped octagonally, which is very German and a somewhat early characteristic.
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Online smart dog

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2023, 03:08:09 PM »
Hi Scott,
Great discussion.  I wonder if Albrecht's war years in Europe profoundly affected him.  It may have induced his zealous religious conversion and his army life accustomed him to group living.  I get a sense of that from his own declaration.  Anyway, I wonder how business was actually transpired.  Your writing about the Baer(?) rifle certainly suggests some business was conducted at a distance. How do you think that happened?  Did the customer seek out Oerter because he had a reputation ranging some distance away from Christian's Spring?  Was there a marketing network through the Moravian community that promoted their crafts far and wide?  Did the customer travel to CS and examine the work and then order a gun?  Did he ask for any special options and haggle over price?  Without day books, how would we know the customer was not informed or cared about the style and maker of the guns they bought and influenced what was made?

dave
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Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2023, 03:25:16 PM »
Anyway, I wonder how business was actually transpired.  Your writing about the Baer(?) rifle certainly suggests some business was conducted at a distance. How do you think that happened?  Did the customer seek out Oerter because he had a reputation ranging some distance away from Christian's Spring?  Was there a marketing network through the Moravian community that promoted their crafts far and wide?  Did the customer travel to CS and examine the work and then order a gun? 

Certainly Moravian crafts of all sorts were known widely, at a great distance from Bethlehem or other settlements, and Moravians had extensive trade networks. There's been lots of works documenting that--and lots and lots of letters from folks elsewhere writing Moravian authorities to request one product or another (including guns).

Important to remember, though, that the profit from these exchanges did not flow to the craftsmen but to the community. Both Albrecht & Oerter chose to live in a manner in which wealth (or accumulation of wealth) was despised. They had no way, in any case, to make money from their work, since (again) they did not earn funds from their labor.

In the case of the Oerter rifle sent to Baer, we don't know for sure--but it seems that Baer (son or father) sought Oerter out because they knew they could acquire a distinctive, heirloom rifle from him. This suggests that Oerter's reputation was known far beyond Christiansbrunn by the early 1770s. But we don't really know how widely: if may have been a connection between the Baers and the Moravians or Oerters in particular (Oerter's father was a schoolteacher in Lancaster County), and if so his reputation may have been known to friends of the Moravians but not much more widely? Similarly, we need to know more about the rifles that Bob has written about that were purchased by people in western New Jersey before we conclude that these were the sort of anonymous purchases that would confirm that Oerter's products stood out or were known as a "brand" far from Bethlehem: were these people strangers to the Moravians or were they, so close to the settlement at Hope, aware of Oerter because of their Moravian connections? Impossible to know. I suggested some time ago that it would be valuable to work through the diaries of Hope, New Jersey, to see if the people who purchased the Oerter rifles visited Hope or traveled there. That might tell us a lot about how Oerter's rifle actually ended up in places distant from Bethlehem.
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook

Offline spgordon

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Re: Lancaster style rifle with "A ALBRECHT" signed barrel aka RCA 46
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2023, 03:34:19 PM »
Did the customer travel to CS and examine the work and then order a gun?  Did he ask for any special options and haggle over price?  Without day books, how would we know the customer was not informed or cared about the style and maker of the guns they bought and influenced what was made?

These are, I think, very different issues. Customers surely had particular requests, asked for special options, or haggled over price. The rifle Oerter made for Baer had special features, which Baer probably requested (and been willing to pay for). Certainly Oerter would have had to have known the Baers' resources before producing such an expensive rifle for them.

We know from Rosalind Beiler's work on the importer Caspar Wistar that in the 1730s he told his German exporters to send him rifles with longer barrels, since that is what his American customers wanted. See Immigrant and Entrepreneur: The Atlantic World of Caspar Wistar, 1650-1750 (Penn State Press, 2008).

It's likely (but, as I said above, not entirely clear) that customers did seek out Oerter's products because awareness of his talent had spread well beyond Bethlehem. So this would be an example of seeking out the product of a particular maker.

The issue of whether customers cared about the "style" of the gun--if you mean the regional styles that we now use to organize eighteenth-century rifles--is (in my mind) very different. Since I've made my point over and over (most recently above with the example of type-faces in books), let me ask you instead: do you have any evidence that any consumer in the eighteenth-century either (a) recognized or (b) cared about the stock profile of a rifle?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 03:39:03 PM by spgordon »
Check out: The Lost Village of Christian's Spring
https://christiansbrunn.web.lehigh.edu/
And: The Earliest Moravian Work in the Mid-Atlantic: A Guide
https://www.moravianhistory.org/product-page/moravian-activity-in-the-mid-atlantic-guidebook