To stretch back to original length bbl or not ? New images added today .

[monro1066]

I own a very nice W G McArtney Percussion Ky.
Signed in script on top of  barrell flat.
My good camera is at work so my cell images will do as a starter
The barrell has been shortened about 10 inches ....
The curl is very nice and a quality piece of maple all over from start to finish  ..
Its a really nice later Ky 20 inlays and nicely crafted ....
What is the consensus on barrell stretching in general ?
TY in advance D

[Mattox Forge]

The rifle looks like it is in excellent condition. I would be loathe to do major reconstruction on it if it were mine. My inclination would be to leave it as is. Part of the working history of the gun is the conversion to percussion and the barrel shortening.

Since it would be nice to see it as a long barreled flintlock as it may have been at one time, I would use it as a pattern to make an earlier version.

Mike

[Dennis Glazener]

The rifle looks like it is in excellent condition. I would be loathe to do major reconstruction on it if it were mine. My inclination would be to leave it as is. Part of the working history of the gun is the conversion to percussion and the barrel shortening.

Since it would be nice to see it as a long barreled flintlock as it may have been at one time, I would use it as a pattern to make an earlier version.

Mike

I agree with Mike leave as is. Make or have made a copy in close to what the original looked like as possible. I suspect what you would have to pay for major restoration would go a long way toward paying for a contempoary copy of the original. GOOD restoration is expensive.
Dennis

[Pukka Bundook]

Agree fully with Mike and Dennis, D.

[JTR]

That's a nice rifle for sure.
The lock plate looks like a percussion one to me, but it's hard to tell from your pictures. I wonder if you can you see signs on the lock plate or stock to tell if it was ever a flintlock? If so, you'd need to pretty much stretch the barrel, and reconvert the lock back to flint again, to have it look right.
In the end, it depends on what you want your gun to look like, and the bucks to get it done.
John

[Bill Paton]

monro1066,

You are getting a glimpse of the diverse and evolving opinions on this broad issue.

JTR is a master at restoration work. He has skillfully conserved several guns in my collection that are much better off after his efforts. None were in “working history” condition. They were badly abused in the 20th century. He returned them to “working history” shape while stabilizing them for further study and enjoyment. He has also stretched other barrels and stocks with great skill and caring. Some of his work has been posted on this site.

That being said, I am strongly in the camp of Mattox Forge, Dennis, and Pukka Bundook favoring leaving this beautiful example in its “working history” mode. As suggested by Mattox Forge, the considerable money required to properly stretch the barrel could be put into a contemporary copy with an original length barrel. Even if done on the cheap with no engraving and less skill than the original, you would be left with a wonderful working history original as well as a shooting copy to demonstrate the architecture of the rifle as originally made.

Bill Paton

[monro1066]

[monro1066]

W G McArtney appears once in my referewnce books.....ant other information Id like to see .
Regds and TY for the input/responses to date .

[WESTbury]

That is a great looking rifle.

I would leave it exactly as it is. The shortening of the barrel is part of its history which would be erased if the barrel and forestock were stretched.

[ntqlvr1948]

 It was probably shortened because the owner kept using it till he got old and that long barrel was too much for him

[Buck]

Monro,

I agree with your opening statement, you have a very nice rifle. I wouldn’t touch - great piece, thanks for sharing.

Buck

[monro1066]

Thank you all for stating your ideas / opinions in what should be best for this fine gun s future
 by  W.G.McArtney .
It seems that the consensus is ."leave  well alone "
I will answer a few questions.
-Yes.... its original  percussion
-Definitely in gd to fine condition as I can make out .....
-Set trigger etc work well...Ive never fired it in the 12 years
 approx Ive owned it and never will shoot it .
-Of interest to me is any history known about W G McArtney would be great .
Im fortunate to be its current caretaker I enjoy getting it out of the safe and
appreciating the workmanship ....
TY D

[homerifle]

William G. McCartney (1820-1872), Uniontown Pa. 1841-1843, Pittsburgh, Pa, 1846-1871 (Kauffman)

Hope this helps. I would leave it as you found it, just my opinion.

[Jim Kibler]

I see no reason to disrupt it.  What is the advantage of doing this work on it?  To please the eye of those who look at it?

Also, though a nice rifle, the cost to do a top-notch job on this would probably be a considerable percentage of the rifle's value.  The problem with this is that people sometimes then try to find someone to do the work at more of a bargain price and damage is done.  This is a story that has been repeated over and over.

Jim

[monro1066]

William G. McCartney (1820-1872), Uniontown Pa. 1841-1843, Pittsburgh, Pa, 1846-1871 (Kauffman)

Hope this helps. I would leave it as you found it, just my opinion.

Any information on him is huge as I have very little information so TY Homerifle ....appreciated .
D

[Justin Urbantas]

can someone please explain barrel stretching to me? I don't understand the concept.

[Dennis Glazener]

Barrel stretching is adding length back to a gun barrel that has been shortened during it's working life. I.e 6 inches cut off many years ago and the current owner has someone restore it to it's original length by welding in a new 6 inch section then matching the patina of the original barrel. If done right it is very hard to see where this new section was added. Of course new wood also needs to be added and aged to match the existing wood.
Dennis

[OLUT]

William G. McCartney (1820-1872), Uniontown Pa. 1841-1843, Pittsburgh, Pa, 1846-1871 (Kauffman)

Hope this helps. I would leave it as you found it, just my opinion.

Any information on him is huge as I have very little information so TY Homerifle ....appreciated .
D

I'm late to the party, but here's more info: Whisker has similar info on McCartney in Uniontown,Pa and then Pittsburgh. In the 1850 & 1870 census as well as his death certificate he is listed as a Pittsburgh gunsmith, but in 1860 he called himself a machinist (worth $10,000!!!). Born about 1820, he died of consumption at age 52 in April 1872.
I agree with the experts not to mess with this fine gun. I bet it was bespoke for Daniel Armstrong. Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but beside "looking a bit short" how did you determine that about 10 inches of the barrel and stock were lopped off? Perhaps by the treatment of the muzzle or muzzle cap or the spacing of the wedges?  (I've got a massive collection of percussion guns and it is usually pretty easy to spot if the barrel has been cut) .... a bespoke gun could have been originally made with any desired barrel length.

[monro1066]

Hi OLUT Thank you for the excellent information  .
Regarding why I believe its been shortened is really about when the
gun is in hand  a few indicators are evident  but maybe not conclusive .
Again your records are just what I want...any family existing today ...where would I search ?
D

William G. McCartney (1820-1872), Uniontown Pa. 1841-1843, Pittsburgh, Pa, 1846-1871 (Kauffman)

Hope this helps. I would leave it as you found it, just my opinion.

Any information on him is huge as I have very little information so TY Homerifle ....appreciated .
D

I'm late to the party, but here's more info: Whisker has similar info on McCartney in Uniontown,Pa and then Pittsburgh. In the 1850 & 1870 census as well as his death certificate he is listed as a Pittsburgh gunsmith, but in 1860 he called himself a machinist (worth $10,000!!!). Born about 1820, he died of consumption at age 52 in April 1872.
I agree with the experts not to mess with this fine gun. I bet it was bespoke for Daniel Armstrong. Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but beside "looking a bit short" how did you determine that about 10 inches of the barrel and stock were lopped off? Perhaps by the treatment of the muzzle or muzzle cap or the spacing of the wedges?  (I've got a massive collection of percussion guns and it is usually pretty easy to spot if the barrel has been cut) .... a bespoke gun could have been originally made with any desired barrel length.

[okawbow]

Is that a pewter nose cap? Is the barrel straight, tapered or swamped?

[monro1066]

Is that a pewter nose cap? Is the barrel straight, tapered or swamped?

Gmn Silver nose cap
Tapering barrell but may have been cut at flare of swamp ?.
Sight has been moved about 3 1/4 " back
12 1/2 "   LOP
33  3/4 "  Bbl

[2 shots]

 guns can only be original once. just my thought.

[monro1066]

guns can only be original once. just my thought.

Hi 2 Shots ..."guns can only be original once ".....thats a fine answer .!!....sums it up
.....Im now considering a replica
but wont be easy ....will be fun ....Mattox Forge ,Dennis Glazener,Bill Paton TY for that idea
I hadnt thought to copy it to make a shooter so yes TY.
 Don