Author Topic: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel  (Read 6536 times)

Offline Crabapples

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Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« on: July 26, 2023, 10:54:19 PM »
Today I took my 50 cal flintlock longrifle (Kibler Colonial) to the range for sighting-in.  I had previously shot it at 25 yards, shooting 60 grains of 2F.  I was able to fire it five or six times without having to clean the bore.

Today I increased range to 75 yds, and the load to 90 grains. I also forgot my cleaning patches at home.  I thought, “OK, I can shoot maybe five shots before I have to quit.” 

But I didn’t take into account that I had increased the load, and so after 3 shots, my hickory rammer snapped trying to get the ball down the barrel. 

I took the gun home, and pulled the ball out using a cleaning rod.  It was a pain in the tookus, but the rifle is clear now. 

It occurs to me, after watching a few “stuck ball” youtubes, that I may have been able to simply fire the gun and eject the ball that way.  I’m not convinced that’s the safest way to do it, but I wonder too if I’m being over-cautious in thinking so. 

Has this ever happened to you, and how did you get the ball out?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 11:52:44 PM by Crabapples »

Offline Stoner creek

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2023, 11:20:23 PM »
Yes but not exactly. 40 years ago.
After that I decided to use a metal (brass) bench rod. The only time I use a wood rammer is in the field hunting.
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Offline Mule Brain

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2023, 11:20:54 PM »
You shouldn't have to clean the bore at all during a shooting session. What type of patch lube are you using?
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Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2023, 11:30:44 PM »
You shouldn't have to clean the bore at all during a shooting session. What type of patch lube are you using?

The ball is .490, patches are precut .015 Ox-yoke ticking. I also use ox-yoke wonder lube.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 11:34:50 PM by Crabapples »

Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2023, 11:55:06 PM »
Yes but not exactly. 40 years ago.
After that I decided to use a metal (brass) bench rod. The only time I use a wood rammer is in the field hunting.

Yes.  I ordered a range rod and some replacement hickory.  Won’t make this mistake again. Will make some other mistake instead next time.

Offline MuskratMike

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2023, 01:27:08 AM »
I would highly consider a different patch thickness and different lube. Not a fan of "Wonder Lube". With a .490 ball I would use a .018 patch and there are several lubes that should work for you. T.O.T.W. Mink oil/grease, the mink oil mixed with 100% pure neatsfoot oil in a 50/50 mixture finally Hoppes black powder patch lube have all worked well for me. You should be able to shoot many shots before needing to wipe. Only on some of my little bore squirrel guns do I ever need to wipe. A good range rod is a great idea, like said earlier I only use my ramrod for hunting and primitive woods walks.
Just the ramblings of an old man. Hope it helps. Let us all know if any of these were of help.
"Muskrat" Mike
"Muskrat" Mike McGuire
Keep your eyes on the skyline, your flint sharp and powder dry.

Offline Frank

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2023, 02:04:24 AM »
Throw the wonder lube in the trash and get a range rod. Use spit patch or Track of the Wolf Mink Oil.

Offline grouse

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2023, 02:07:19 AM »
I shoot 490 balls and 018 patch with spit as a lube,15 shots and the last was as
easy as the first. This is in a Kibler Colonial also!

Offline davec2

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2023, 02:27:42 AM »
Crabapples,

Do yourself a HUGE favor and look up the countless times Daryl and Taylor have explained in great detail how to shoot as many times as you want without EVER wiping the bore.  Wet, tight patches....shoot all you want.  I assume that most of us like to shoot, but I see many who spend twice as much time wiping  as they do shooting.  I guess that saves them a lot of powder and lead...... :o
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2023, 02:34:35 AM »
Throw the wonder lube in the trash and get a range rod. Use spit patch or Track of the Wolf Mink Oil.

Thanks, I’ll try the mink oil, and using a .018 patch next time, and see if that helps.  I hope it will; running a couple cleaning patches after every shot is a pain.

Offline Mule Brain

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2023, 02:59:10 AM »
I run 40 dawn/60 water solution for lube. I can run all day to Sunday no swabbing cleaning etc.....

You should be able to load your gun with the rod that goes with it. I spend most of my time shooting in the woods where I don't use a range rod.

I have a Kibler colonial in .50 as well, and its a tack driver. Will shoot into the same hole at 50yds. I shoot 490 ball in mine

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Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2023, 03:15:36 AM »
Do yourself a HUGE favor and look up the countless times Daryl and Taylor have explained in great detail how to shoot as many times as you want without EVER wiping the bore. 

I certainly will, but I hope you will forgive my ignorance in my knowing neither Daryl or Taylor.

Where can I find their explanations?

Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2023, 03:18:32 AM »
I run 40 dawn/60 water solution for lube.

I will try that asap.  I wonder if wonderlube is fouling my barrel; I assumed it was powder residue but maybe not.

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2023, 03:46:17 AM »
I can fire 12 or 15 shots without cleaning, using moose milk, or even spit patches.
Also, my 50 cal shoots out to 80 yds or so, either hunting or trail walk with 65grFFFg.  I can't see any better than that , that powder would make a difference?

Been shooting along time like that and killed lots and lots of deer.  In my 54 cal I use 75Gr FFg, same range, same patches, same lub,
same results.
I do not use moose milk when hunting however, but  some form of grease lub.
Hope this would help you.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2023, 03:48:58 AM »
Do not try to shoot the ball out if it's not seated on the powder charge. You could ring the barrel OR WORSE. As everyone has said, dump the wonder lube.

Offline snapper

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2023, 03:55:51 AM »
I use a very damp patch with moose milk on it.  NEVER use a cleaning patch and I can shoot all day.   The damp patch cleans the bore every time you load it. 

I also never use a wooden ramrod.   Even while hunting I might carry a steel range rod.

Fleener
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Offline Mule Brain

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2023, 04:06:43 AM »
An example, shot a four day shooting match and never swabbed or cleaned. My patches are nearly dripping wet
Those Without Arms Cannot Defend Freedom

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Offline TDM

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2023, 04:58:20 AM »
I personally use TOW mink oil but the 40/60 or 50/50 Dawn/water mix is very interesting to me and I plan to try it. 

Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2023, 06:58:26 AM »
Do not try to shoot the ball out if it's not seated on the powder charge. You could ring the barrel OR WORSE.

That was the safest assumption. But I wanted to ask, in case there I was mistaken. Thanks.

Offline davec2

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2023, 08:31:12 AM »
Crabapple,

Search for posts about shooting by both  "D. Taylor Sapergia" and his brother "Daryl"

"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2023, 03:33:12 PM »
Crabapples,

Do yourself a HUGE favor and look up the countless times Daryl and Taylor have explained in great detail how to shoot as many times as you want without EVER wiping the bore.  Wet, tight patches....shoot all you want.  I assume that most of us like to shoot, but I see many who spend twice as much time wiping  as they do shooting.  I guess that saves them a lot of powder and lead...... :o
And WHAT do those two know anyway ;D ;D?I hope to have the pleasure of talking to Taylor in Lexington on the 11th of August  and rang him up on the phone two days ago.Only Jud Brennan has to travel farther unless someone from Europe comes over.
Bob Roller

Offline badwolf

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2023, 03:44:23 PM »
A co2 ball disch. arger is great for removing a stuck ball

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2023, 05:55:54 PM »
Next time cut up your underwear with your knife for cleaning patches.

Bob

Offline Crabapples

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2023, 07:59:48 PM »
Next time cut up your underwear with your knife for cleaning patches.

Ha! That would make quite an impression with the fellas at the range.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Oops. Ball stuck half way down the barrel
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2023, 08:40:30 PM »
Crabapples:  Commercial products for shooting black powder rifles work only sometimes.  In your case, you have handicapped yourself right out of the gate.  First off, Ox Yoke patches advertised at .015" thick are not.  They are more likely around .009" or .010" thick and that is far too thin to seal your bore and prevent blowby.  Blowby is when the gases that are supposed to stay behind the ball, burn the patch and get past it, fouling the bore badly and ruining accuracy.  You require a Vernier's calipers to measure your patch material, so YOU know exactly how thick it is, and thus, how effective it will be.  Your patch must be thick enough to form a tight seal between the bore and the ball and fill the grooves with some compression in the bottom of the grooves.  A patch this thick will also carry enough lubricant to effectively dissolve all of the fouling from your previous shot as you slide it down the bore with the ball, and finally seat the ball firmly on the charge.  At this stage of loading, there should be no fouling at all left in your bore, and there will in fact be a thin film of lubricant coating the bore from ball to muzzle.  I have read that there are some good commercial patches available, but they are so easy to make, it seems silly to me to buy them.  I go to the fabric store, in my case, Fabricland (Canadian) with my Vernier's calipers and measure denim, drill, or twill fabric by crushing the material between the jaws of the calipers with my thumb and forefinger as hard as I can, and take a reading.  This is how the patch is compressed in the bore of your rifle, so this is the measurement you need.  I submit that your patches for a .50 cal rifle and a .490" ball should be no less than .018" thick (compressed) and better yet. 021".  Here, denim fabric that is listed as 8 oz. measures .018" and 10 oz. denim measures .021".  I precut my patches too, using a 1 1/2" ball bearing and a bearing race of the appropriate inside diameter.  For a .50 cal, I cut 1 1/8" patches, having first washed and dried the material twice to remove the sizing in the cloth from the factory.
Wonderlube doesn't work, as you have discovered.  Perhaps you can salvage it if you cut it with neatsfoot oil or olive oil by at least 100%. But the oil alone will be so much better than adding the Wonderlube.  There are dozens of good lubes that all work more or less equally and a brief search here will find discussions on them all.  For target shooting, as in sighting in a rifle, trail matches or just fun shooting, a liquid lube with a water base is all you need.  But your patches must be close to dripping wet, not just damp.  I place all the patches I am going to shoot into a copper patch box and pour my liquid lube into the box until it is about to overflow.  I press the patches down into the liquid saturating them all, then pour off the excess back into my storage vessel, pressing the patches gently with my finger to squeeze out the excess liquid.  I carry extra patches and a small jar of liquid lube with me to the range, in case I run out of patches and need to replenish my supply.
Now, I confess to using a short starter and a priming horn, so I am going straight to $#*! for blaspheming.  But I can also shoot all day without having to wipe my bore.  One of my favourite rifles is a Western PA rifle after T. Allison in .25 cal. and I use .018" patches about the size of a dime, a .250" ball, and my 1/4" wooden ramrod to load this rifle all day long.  You cannot, I hasten to add, load the rifle in one long stroke as that would surely break the rammer, but instead, I use 5" lengths of the rod to push the ball down the bore, finally placing the hole in the knob of the starter over the end of the rod for the final bump.  But for the purposes of target shooting on a firing line, and for cleaning, also use a steel range rod, even with my .60 cal Virginia rifle.
I apologize for the wordy missive, but sincerely hope that some of this will help you, and add to your enjoyment of shooting black powder longrifles.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.