More at Morphy auction in September

[rich pierce]

Fiddler posted a link to Louis Parker’s guns at the Morphy auction below. I poked around and there’s something for everyone there except early rifles. http://auctions.morphyauctions.com/Catalog.aspx

[Bob Roller]

Does this define the saying that "Somebody lost their marbles"
Bob Roller

[mr. no gold]

What? Where are the guns?

rr

[john bohan]

you can buy a gun cheaper.

[rich pierce]

What? Where are the guns?

rr

Scroll through auctions till you see this


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[Shreckmeister]

I’m not paying 26++ percent to buy anything.  If someone wants a quick sale of something bad enough to put it in Auction, Then they should pay the Auction fees and take the net. Are buyer and seller both being hit with auction fees this high?

[Eric Kettenburg]

I’m not paying 26++ percent to buy anything.  If someone wants a quick sale of something bad enough to put it in Auction Then they should pay the Auction fees and take the net. Are buyer and seller are being hit with auction fees this high?

I AGREE 100%!!!!  If an auction company needs to charge this ridiculous fee for a sale, it should be on the seller who chose to consign and auction goods rather than hit up the buyer who is the effing customer.  #$!?

But, I guess the response is, "well they do it because they can."  And as long as buyers are willing to keep paying all these stupid silly fees, well they'll keep paying these stupid silly fees that should be on the seller, not the buyer.

[OLUT]

Until the system changes, I look at what I would pay to get the gun into my door. I then deduct 26% to arrive at my max bid..... it's really the consigner who gets screwed with both the auction house's commission and then the reduced bid amount by buyers like me who reduce their gavel price bid to cover the infamous "buyers premium".

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yes.  The buyer is indeed getting hit with the old phillips driver.

[Shreckmeister]

I suppose they charge for the catalog too?

[rich pierce]

Ya gotta really want it, that’s for sure. I did not see many that go with a final cost that could be recouped in a short time in a private sale.

Reminds me of my early days selling guns on consignment at shops.

[AZshot]

I think Rock Island is a 27% fee.  And charges taxes, and handling, and. ...

But has anyone else noticed like 80% of ALL guns selling on auctions are now going through Rock Island?  They are selling millions of dollars in guns every year, in groups of 200-300 every month.   

[Molly]

My recent RI purchase was charged 17.5% buyers premium.  Buyers premium is higher if you pay by credit card.
Shipping on a long rifle was $46.  The crate alone was worth that!
Insurance was at my option and was $21.15
Sales tax was $115.66
It was delivered to UPS on 7/17 and was at my door 7/19 before noon.

All this on an $1800 hammer price.

I wish fees were less but the truth is that every seller wants the most $$ and every buyer wants the least cost.  Auctions bring a world of buyers to an event that would otherwise escape most of us.

Auctions spend time in researching the offerings and to a certain degree their reputation is at risk if the screw up.  My guess is that the cost factor to an auction could easily be 10%....staff, facility, advertising, platforms to bid on, etc.  The crazy element comes in if one goes to another platform to bid.  They all tack on several additional points, maybe as much as 6%.

So best just decide that it's a part of the market and get in or stay out.  This is our first on line gun purchase.  It was a total happy experience.  Got a good gun that I simply would not have encountered in my world at a reasonable price and excellent service from Rock Island.  I fear it may not be the last.

Not sure about "Morphy".  The seem to have some less than friendly staff.  Best not go out in the rain else they will drown.  Guess we do not project the proper image to be among their clients and accordingly I'll make every effort to retain that status.

[Seth Isaacson]

I think Rock Island is a 27% fee.  And charges taxes, and handling, and. ...

But has anyone else noticed like 80% of ALL guns selling on auctions are now going through Rock Island?  They are selling millions of dollars in guns every year, in groups of 200-300 every month.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/faq/what-is-the-buyer-s-premium

At Rock Island Auction Company, the buyer’s premium is 17.5%. All purchases made by credit card are subject to an additional 3.5% service fee. If the purchaser utilizes RIAC’s live bidding platform ‘RIAC Live’, there will be a fee charged, calculated as an additional 1% of the hammer price.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Auctions spend time in researching the offerings and to a certain degree their reputation is at risk if the screw up. 

That may be true for Civil War-era, lever guns, colt pistols etc., but that is not the case imho when it comes to all these butchered, buggered, half-fake flint and early Federal era pieces.  It seems to me (admittedly a stooge according to some here who know it all, so call me Curly...) that when it comes to earlier pieces, they are happy to simply parrot whatever the Kindig-era obsessed seller is willing to provide as manufactured fact and simply "overlook" with vague and bland commentary pretty much anything that may otherwise be a giant flaming red flag.

See the most recent "John Hovey 1775" musket/fowler at Morphy's as a case in point...

And I do not see how their reputation is at risk, as they make it a very pointed point (apologies for the redundancy) to NOT back up pretty much anything, which speaks volumes of wherein lie their true interests (i.e., it's not their reputation).  Every description is sure to include a half-dozen speculative verbal exit doors to ensure that they can not be accused of outright fraud.

Back when we used to have a lot more fun here with friendly argumentative debate and infinitely less moderation, Earl was very fond of repeating a great mantra (paraphrase):  "There's nothing wrong with saying 'I don't know.' "

[Mike Brooks]

I'll say this....there are a lot of people out there with a lot of money. I have bought a lot of stuff  from RIAco over the years. You have to figure in the fees on the end, but in my opinion most people don't. Most folks bidding at on  line auctions pay 25% above retail. That's the way it is, I don't like it but There are no other sources for the things I'm looking for that are cheaper in the end. It sucks, but old guns are expensive. You're either a buyer or you ain't.
 

[Daniel Coats]

Why do people spend money they don't have on something they don't need just to impress other people they don't even like?

I for one am done with RIA

[Molly]

That's welcome news, Dan.  Now I do not need to worry about you competing for an item I want!

And I tend to agree with Mr. Brooks.  I am acquainted with a number of experienced "auction" buyers and all seem to be financially very sound.  Not that they give me a financial statement or a copy of their tax returns.  And I do not think they are trying to impress anyone.  Granted the "need" is intangible but all who appreciate the "old gun" are drawn to in on those intangibles.  The history...people... places...events....makers....the artistry, these are just some of the draw.   Beats the heck out of collecting marbles.

[Daniel Coats]

Thanks Molly I'm only charging you 5 percent on the money you save! 

[Mike Brooks]

Why do people spend money they don't have on something they don't need just to impress other people they don't even like?

I for one am done with RIA

It is what it is. I just read in the most recent cataloge this will be the last premiere auction in Illinois,  from here on out they will be run in their new Texas facility. Unfortunate for me as the current location is only 25 miles from my place and I always drive over on viewing day to take a look down the bores of what I'm interested in.  If I don't get to look at the bore condition I don't buy. So. That's probably the end of buying old guns for me.
My wife will be greatly relieved
...

[EC121]

I figure out what the item is worth to me and subtract the various costs.  That is my high sealed bid.  Then I let it ride.  Win or lose the sun will still come the next day. 

[spgordon]

Auctions spend time in researching the offerings and to a certain degree their reputation is at risk if the screw up. 

That may be true for Civil War-era, lever guns, colt pistols etc., but that is not the case imho when it comes to all these butchered, buggered, half-fake flint and early Federal era pieces.  It seems to me (admittedly a stooge according to some here who know it all, so call me Curly...) that when it comes to earlier pieces, they are happy to simply parrot whatever the Kindig-era obsessed seller is willing to provide as manufactured fact and simply "overlook" with vague and bland commentary pretty much anything that may otherwise be a giant flaming red flag.

[snip]

And I do not see how their reputation is at risk, as they make it a very pointed point (apologies for the redundancy) to NOT back up pretty much anything, which speaks volumes of wherein lie their true interests (i.e., it's not their reputation).  Every description is sure to include a half-dozen speculative verbal exit doors to ensure that they can not be accused of outright fraud.

I wish we had a "like" button for posts on this site.



We've seen over and over that, when some list members point out major problems with listings (which always inflate the value of the gun, "coincidentally"), other list members do everything possible to protect the auction house--usually by suggesting something along the lines of "well, if a buyer's willing to shell out the money ..." or "well, then don't buy it." I've never seen the reputation of an auction house suffer for the misleading and (in my opinion) fraudulent listings they provide.

[Molly]

So then you have a diminished view of the auction houses reputation?  No claim was made that anyone was going to jail or charged with fraud although I will guess that it has probably happened.  Truth be known it is probably more likely to be a problem for an auction to contradict decades of published  history and "facts" thereby resulting in a lesser value.  It does not seem that the auctions CREATE the pedigree that a gun comes with.  That was done well before it arrived at  their door.  Time validates the pedigree, not the auction company.

[spgordon]

Truth be known it is probably more likely to be a problem for an auction to contradict decades of published  history and "facts" thereby resulting in a lesser value. 

I honestly don't know what this means--or implies. If "decades of published history" turns out to be wrong, auction houses should continue to repeat it because ... because why?

[spgordon]

Time validates the pedigree, not the auction company.

Auction companies routinely repeat information from 60 years ago, which has been disproven over and over again in print or elsewhere: they are thus "validating" a pedigree that is inaccurate. Happily we know a lot more in 2023 than we did in 1960. I suppose that practice of repeating old and mistaken information may simply be sloppy, but that is giving these professionals the benefit of the doubt that I doubt most of us would accept in almost any other instance. Imagine if a drug company, or a car company, or a financial advisor, relied on research from 1960. Would we give them a pass?

Certainly in nearly all these instances the mistakes inflate the value of the item, which of course serves the interest of the seller and the auction house--and, as long as the game continues, the buyer-who-will-be-a-seller-in-the-future.