J Gross Rifle

[Molly]

The rifle on the Morphy auction appears to have a couple of features which are worth of explanation.

The key at the muzzle end looks to be only about 2 inches behind the muzzle and there appears to be a "void" where a key was just a few inches behind that.

There are 3 thimbles plus the entry thimble and the two at the muzzle end are disproportionately close together.

What's all that mean if anything?

 

[rich pierce]

Could mean the barrel list a few inches at the muzzle. How long is it?

[Molly]

barrel is 41.75.

Cut at the end would be my assumption as well but nothing is said about it in the description.

[JTR]

Do you have a Link to the gun?

[Molly]

Here 'tis.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=566270

PS:  Dan:  Please refrain from bidding against me.

[bama]

The barrel appears to have been cut back at the muzzle, the front pipe was relocated back and the original nose appears to have been reused also. The lug missing the wedge may still be there and may be just missing the wedge, I see no reason for it to be removed. The new forward lug may have the original wedge in it and the gunsmith just abandoned the lug missing the wedge. As a gunsmith I would have made a new wedge for the new lug so all of the holes were filled up, but that is modern day thinking. The abandoned hole for the old wedge may not have been a concern back in the day. If you get the rifle and find the lug is still there, I would have a wedge made for it. It probably had one when the gunsmith finished the alteration.

[Sequatchie Rifle]

When I handled this rifle several years back Louis Parker told me the barrel had been cut back a few inches and he was considering restoring it. He also repaired the patchbox.

[ntqlvr1948]

The barrel cut down is mentioned in the description

[Molly]

Darn!  Missed that!!

"Barrel was shortened by 4" during period of use."

[Dennis Glazener]

Here 'tis.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=566270

PS:  Dan:  Please refrain from bidding against me.

Guess this applies to me too 
Dennis

[Molly]

Absolutely!  You have too many guns as it is.  As moderator don't you have some tool to ban ALR members from the auction?

[Dennis Glazener]

Afraid not

[AZshot]

It's nice to see a signed Jacob Gross II, I have a attributed one.  It has a different looking triggerguard, with a forward facing spur on the handguard.  I wonder how set makers were in their styles?  Because I see much variation even in signed Appalachian rifles.

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  ... Not my favorite of Louie's guns being sold, but you know why, Molly... !!! ... hope you get it... welcome to the "deep pocket" collectors cartel... !!! .... Regards.... Cades Cove Fiddler...

[Molly]

Actually the appeal of 2127 is mostly to the documentation going back to the original owner.  That is a rarity.  Stylistically, flatten the butt and change the guard and it would shed the TN characteristics. Never have I seen a decorated box like that on a TN gun. Actually, I don't like that feature at all. 2125 and 2126, great guns that they are, are too decorated to my TN taste. But all three of those reflect features that their owners found desirable.  TN style is ordinarily ordinary!  Simple and graceful...maybe even elegant.  They don't need the glitz found on others   2128 is by far the most appealing and may be more affordable.  2129 has your name on in CCF.  Maybe a sleeper.   I don't get a sense of the "heavy" barrel in the pictures but I guess it is.  But alas!  No deep pockets here just a brief fantasy which will all go "POOF" come sale day.

But I'll be watching that's for sure.

Molly

[Cades Cove Fiddler]

  .. I'm cheering for ye,  Molly and Allan..I hope the bidders are all asleep and you get whichever you want,...!!! ... regards,... CCF..

[JTR]

Actually the appeal of 2127 is mostly to the documentation going back to the original owner.  That is a rarity.  Stylistically, flatten the butt and change the guard and it would shed the TN characteristics. Never have I seen a decorated box like that on a TN gun. Actually, I don't like that feature at all. 2125 and 2126, great guns that they are, are too decorated to my TN taste. But all three of those reflect features that their owners found desirable.  TN style is ordinarily ordinary!  Simple and graceful...maybe even elegant.  They don't need the glitz found on others   2128 is by far the most appealing and may be more affordable.  2129 has your name on in CCF.  Maybe a sleeper.   I don't get a sense of the "heavy" barrel in the pictures but I guess it is.  But alas!  No deep pockets here just a brief fantasy which will all go "POOF" come sale day.

But I'll be watching that's for sure.

Molly

So did you win your rifle?
John

[Molly]

No!  Dennis out bid me on all those I wanted!

2125 sold for $30000
2126 sold for $ 9750
2127 sold for $ 8500
and the one with the most appeal was 2128 which went for $7500
even the unsigned heavy barrel one went for $4800

And these are before the buyers premium.

They are all nice but I'll still say the features transcend what I feel is a TN rifle, (except the last 2) even though they are.  It's all auction hype in my opinion.  Bless those who now own them.  I know they will enjoy them (unless they are now realizing they got caught up in the desire to have them.)  Also apparently a lot of documented history with two of them and that has to add value.  So we'll just sit back and enjoy our Lawing's and hopefully some of the interest in TN
guns rubs off on those lowly things on our wall. So the lot goes for $60,550.  Add taxes and buyers premium it tops out over $75,000.  Hubby can put that $$ to work and yield over $4000 a year in income!

We (he) sleeps well with the outcome!