Looking for lock for this old fowler

[Jamie Hurley]

I'm very new to old flintlocks. I just bought this old fowler. Price seemed good and I thought a little restoration work would be fun.

Can anyone recommend a flintlock on the market I could use for the restoration? Or at least some to look at? I don't know enough yet to know what to look for.

And if you want to check out the piece, and tell me about it, feel free. I gander it's 18th century and English, but that's all I can guess at. Any feedback at all is meaningful to me. Here's a link to the auction with more pictures.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1014168213

[Dave Marsh]

So you are going to convert it to flintlock from percussion?

[Jamie Hurley]

My assumption was this started life as flintlock as was converted to percussion. My plan was to take it back to flintlock.

Again, I don't know a ton. If I'm wrong or this is a bad idea, let me know. 

[Mattox Forge]

If you want an old one, I'll sell this one for $175. This one is 6 3/16" long. It should have a new sear fitted. If you are looking for a new one, I would look at the Chambers Colonial or Round Faced English locks. Those are 6" and the tail is more slender than your lock appears to be. The Chambers locks will be better locks than the one I have honestly, but if you want an old one mines an option. Here's a link to the Chambers locks so you can see what they look like:
https://flintlocks.com/new/locks.html.





Unless you are looking to have a wall hanger that just looks original, I would go with a Chambers lock.

Mike

[Mattox Forge]

My assumption was this started life as flintlock as was converted to percussion. My plan was to take it back to flintlock.

Again, I don't know a ton. If I'm wrong or this is a bad idea, let me know.

Here is my opinion, for whatever it is worth. You didn't pay much for it and it really isn't a super rare item. It is in reasonable shape, and would be the start of a fun project. Restore it to flintlock and have fun and learn about building. Some are of the opinion that old guns should never be altered or changed from the as found condition. I differ from that school of thought slightly, and only apply that thinking to rare items that I have. For run of the mill stuff, especially guns that someone else has had a hand at restoring and or repairing, I have no qualms about altering it. In any case, even if it was a super rare Manton, one of a kind English fowler, it is yours and you are free to do as you please.

Mike

[oldtravler61]

  You could check out Track of the woods. They have a catalog showing all their locks and dimensions. The pictures they have are all full size drawings.  Just maybe that would help you decide.

[Jim Kibler]

I would leave it alone.  Any work other than very professional work will likely detract.  Learn from what is left.  It's a neat gun.  Any more photos?  Thanks for sharing.

[JTR]

If that's the original lock plate, it looks like it comes with some internal parts. Maybe correct, maybe not.

If it's a military gun, old original parts should be fairly easy to find to put the lock back to Flint configuration.

Taking care of the percussion drum threaded hole is another matter. Doing it right, making the work invisible, takes some skill and experience. An easy way is just saw the drum off, clean up the area, rust it up a bit and let it go at that. That way, if you gain more skill down the road, you can remove the threaded plug and do it up right.

As it is, you have a $300 gun. With a little work you can have a better looking gun worth a bit more. Or, if you mess it up trying stuff beyond your skill level, you can end up with a $100 mess. 

John

[bluenoser]

Plenty detailed photos in the link.
It appears you might have all the percussion parts except the screws and mainspring.  Have you considered restoring it back to working percussion and then, perhaps, restoring it to flint?  Appropriate flint restoration parts for this lock might be available.  Access all the threads, videos and texts on the subject that you can find.  Take inventory of other things to be addressed.  It looks to me to be a fun project.

[Hudnut]

 I really don't like reconversions.  Destroys part of the history of the piece and turns the thing into a sort of representative specimen.  Doing the barrel so that the elimination of the drum is essentially undetectable requires steel welding on the barrel and that means refinishing.
Rebuild the lock into a functional percussion, without altering what is there.  Do a sympathetic restoration.

[JV Puleo]

I completely agree with Hudnut re reconversions. And, they are a lot more difficult to do in a convincing manner than most people appreciate.

In every case where I've dismantled similar guns the breech plug was very shallow and the touch hole was just in front of the face. This means that when it was drilled and tapped for a drum they probably hit the forward end of the threads. If you weld up the hole with the plug in (as most do) you'll probably weld the plug to the barrel. If you take it out you'll probably screw up (pun intended) the threads and may not be able to seat the plug properly. Add to that the quality of the welding...you may not intend to fire it but someone, in the future, may well do so and if the weld isn't perfect you've made a pipe bomb.

Probably 90% of the reconversions are purely cosmetic even when they are done well and the gun is effectively neutered. I've shot a lot of original flint guns and conversions but I wouldn't take a chance with a reconversion.

[Hlbly]

If that is the original lock plate,order parts and rebuild it.

[ntqlvr1948]

I believe the lock plate is that of a first model brown Bess. It should be 6 and 7/8th inches long. I think all parts are available.

[bluenoser]

Isn't the lock plate on the 1st model or Long Land Brown Bess more banana shaped?

[ntqlvr1948]

Yes if it is a pattern 1738. But the pattern 1756 is not. I have one and the plate is not banana shaped.

[bluenoser]

Agreed

[JV Puleo]

There are no Ordnance markings on the face of the lock which precludes it being from a land pattern musket. It may be from one of the many commercial copies, in which case some of the reproduced parts may fit.

[bluenoser]

That might explain why the frizzen spring screw is slightly ahead of the frizzen screw, while those of the Pat. 1756 locks I recall seeing have been slightly to the rear of the frizzen screw.