.62 rifle test fire today!!

[Justin Urbantas]

So, I've been working on my English rifle this week. I installed the rib and thimbles, front sight, installed the sling swivels, vent liner, altered the rear sight and installed it. I finally got it all finished in the white.

I couldn't wait to bring it out for a test fire.

I started with 85gr Curtis and Harvey 1.5fg powder and a .600 rb and .018 ticking patch.
It loaded too easily.  I could push it in with my thumb.
Despite that, it shot excellent 3 shot groups at 25 and 50 yards.
It shot low and a bit right, which was good, because I can tap the rear sight a bit and I have plenty of front sight to file.
 Upping the charge to 120gr was a different story.
 Accuracy was terrible,  and I was confused until I picked up some patches from down range.
 The heavy load patches were blown right through.
Next range visit I need bigger balls/thicker patches,  and I'll try a .20 ga card wad to protect the patches. 
Once I have a good load figured out, I'll file the front sight, and then I'll get the sight leaf set up for 150 or 200 yards probably. There's definitely potential here.

[Daryl]

Not seeing pictures, just the large blank spaces for them.
Heavier charges require much tighter loads as you found out.

[Justin Urbantas]

Weird.  I'll try in the comments.

[Stoner creek]

Those patches look awful. It’s a miracle that the shots are printing at all. Too tight of a patch? Over sized ball? Sharp lands on the barrel? Too much powder? Lots of variables. Back to the drawing board.
Good luck friend!
W

[Daryl]

All the pictures showed up second time in, Justin. The rib and pipes look great!!
That 85gr. charge did shoot amazingly well at 25 and 50 Justin. I am surprised it shot so well at 50. VERY surprised with so much blow-by that didn't burn them up
until you increased the charge. I'll bet that smaller ball will shoot just fine, with a 14 ounce denim patch, Justin. I measure those at .034".
Patch not thick enough, Wayne.  They did not 'print' with the hunting load, at all.  Justin mentioned that in his verbiage.
He'll correct it next time out.
Taylor uses a .615" ball, or perhaps the .612", 10 ounce patch and 127gr. in his Rice barreled S. Hawken.
With that load, he printed a 2 1/2", 5 shot group at 200yards, in practice for the 200yard match held here, some years ago.
He built this Hawken to compete against my .69.
This was the day. I found my 200 meter sight was spot on at 200yards, using a mere 140gr. 2F GOEX, .682" ball and 12 ounce denim patch
instead of the same patch and ball with 165gr. 2F GOEX. I filed those sights in, in 1986 - still spot-on.

[Justin Urbantas]

Thanks Daryl. Yeah, I'm sure I can the heavier loads to shoot well with a tighter combo. Next time out I'll try Swiss 1.5fg. Do you just buy denim at a fabric shop? Or cut up jeans? Do you wash and dry it in a dryer to shrink it?

[Daryl]

I buy denim at the yard good store. mostly using 10 ounce for all the guns now. When Taylor first built my .69, it would not shoot 10 ounce (.682" ball) over 90gr. of powder
or it would blow holes in the patches. I had to use 12 ounce, I measured at .025" with the mic and .030" compressed in calipers. That worked all the way up to 1,700fps, which
took 200gr. GOEX 2F. Shot the same as 165gr., so I stayed with 165 for my moose load. Shot a bunch of 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 100 meters with that load combo. That was in the 80's.
Might be able to do 2 1/2" to 3" today. I made 2 1/2" a few years back, shooting with Taylor, but had 4 shots in less than 1 1/2".
I am a firm believer it takes powder to shoot well at long range. More powder, also gives you a longer point blank range, given reasonably low sight height.
I wash new denim twice. First time, regular wash, second time, same cycle, but without soap. Rinse twice. The material usually comes out slightly thicker than it measures in the store. Safe
to say that with a ball .005" under bore size, 10 ounce should work well. It might even work with a .010" undersized ball, as long as the rifling is normal, not the deeper rounded bottom grooves.
A .600" ball is already .010" undersized to every land. It's no wonder those thin patches were burned through. Even the light load shows blow-by all the way around.
Keep at it, you'll get it shooting well with a hunting load.
I found Swiss 1.5F to be heavier per stricken load(volume), than GOEX 2F and 3F.

[Dennis Glazener]

Not seeing pictures, just the large blank spaces for them.
Heavier charges require much tighter loads as you found out.

Photo jost server very slow, photos did not show for me at first but finally popped up. Photo host must be having problems.
Dennis

[Justin Urbantas]

Yeah. Must be something like that. I couldn't see the pics on Smart Dog's post either.

[Frank]

Just curious why some of you guys are using 120-200 grains of powder. Hunters here in Pennsylvania are dropping white tails in their tracks at 50-75 yards with 70 grains of 2F with their 20 gauge smooth bores. I guess I subscribe to the Mike Brooks and John Baird school of hunting. 70-80 grains is plenty and stop trying to turn your smoke pole into 7mm Magnum. Modern ballistic tables for center fire rifles do not apply to round ball rifles. Two totally different as animals.

[smylee grouch]

Frank, not every one lives in Pennsylvania where you get those kinds of shots. Most times the extra velocity is wanted not for " power " but flatter trajectory and less wind deflection because of less time of flight.  Depending on ROT, some rifles shoot more accurately with bigger powder charges.

[Justin Urbantas]

I built this rifle specifically for putting down big critters here in BC. Elk, moose, bear. Maybe grizzly if they open the season again(with a back up gun.)  A little more velocity and a big ball is always helpful.

[Daryl]

Just curious why some of you guys are using 120-200 grains of powder. Hunters here in Pennsylvania are dropping white tails in their tracks at 50-75 yards with 70 grains of 2F with their 20 gauge smooth bores. I guess I subscribe to the Mike Brooks and John Baird school of hunting. 70-80 grains is plenty and stop trying to turn your smoke pole into 7mm Magnum. Modern ballistic tables for center fire rifles do not apply to round ball rifles. Two totally different as animals.

It happens, but is rare in this Province to get a 50yard shot at anything, especially a mule deer or elk.
When "you go into the forest after a deer, be prepared to meet a tiger" Forsyth's words. In this area, you can exchange "tiger" for "grizzly".
No one is trying to turn their ML into a 7mm mag., I actually grossly dislike that cartridge, BTW.
More powder makes for more penetrative power at longer ranges, as well as a flatter trajectory for shooting upwards of 150 to 200yards. The trajectory is important. I
can see why someone who doesn't need this from his ML, might not understand why it's important.
Both those ranges are fully inside a .62's (or larger bore's) capability for moose, elk or deer, IF you have the expertise to do it. Many do.

[alacran]

When I hunt in the Midwest a plinking load is more than adequate. Seldom do you have to take a shot over 35 yards. In the West having a good 100 yard load is necessary. Depending on the terrain and timber, a 150 yard load is better.

[Frank]

I would never take a shot on a deer past 100 yards with my flintlock, as I could not guarantee a clean kill. A .600 round ball with 85 grains of 2F shoots fairly flat out to 100-120 yards. If the game is at 200 yards, I would close the gap.

[smylee grouch]

When I hunt in the Midwest a plinking load is more than adequate. Seldom do you have to take a shot over 35 yards. In the West having a good 100 yard load is necessary. Depending on the terrain and timber, a 150 yard load is better.

  I agree. Woodlot deer isn't the only thing hunted, open country Pronghorn , plains mule deer and whietails to name a few

[HighUintas]

It doesn't matter if I'm at 25 or 250.... I'm fairly certain my flinch when shooting my flintlock would alert the game and have it running off before the ball leaves the barrel!   

[alacran]

I would never take a shot on a deer past 100 yards with my flintlock, as I could not guarantee a clean kill. A .600 round ball with 85 grains of 2F shoots fairly flat out to 100-120 yards. If the game is at 200 yards, I would close the gap.

If I have learned anything about hunting in the past 50 years of doing so, is that there are no guaranties!

[Marcruger]

200 yards with a roundball muzzleloader?   Not me.  I respect animals too much for that. 

[Daryl]

I know fully well I can kill moose at 200yards, with my 14 bore rifle.
If I shot a gun smaller than .62, I would not attempt that. Even a .54 RB starting at 1,700fps can kill moose at 170yards. That shot, I witnessed.
The ball was under the hide, on the off side. Holed both lungs and the heart.

[utseabee]

Just curious why some of you guys are using 120-200 grains of powder. Hunters here in Pennsylvania are dropping white tails in their tracks at 50-75 yards with 70 grains of 2F with their 20 gauge smooth bores. I guess I subscribe to the Mike Brooks and John Baird school of hunting. 70-80 grains is plenty and stop trying to turn your smoke pole into 7mm Magnum. Modern ballistic tables for center fire rifles do not apply to round ball rifles. Two totally different as animals.

    Depends on the barrel, rate of twist, and rifling depth.  I have a 58 caliber that won't even think about grouping with less than 110 grains of FFG. I also live in PA and whether it is 80 grains or 120 grains of powder doesn't matter to me.  My load is what shoots best in the rifle.

[Justin Urbantas]

Yeah. It's all about familiarity, practice and knowing your limits. When I was in Montana I got a nice mule deer buck with my .45 flintlock at 120 yards. I took my time,  got down in the prone and rested solid on a rock, and put a ball right in the boilerhouse.

[Dphariss]

Hi Justin
A patch over the powder might work better than a bore sized card wad. I suspect the fit is a little loose as you indicated. Larger diameter RBs have more rotational inertia. This can cause patch failures if the patch is weak or the fit loose. I have pretty much given up on cotton ticking. Most of it is made on the wrong side of the Pacific and is easy to tear. I have found heavy linen at an online supplier that i like.  fabric-store dot com. I wash it and run it through the dryer then iron it flat.   They often have a linen “canvas” that works pretty well. And in my experience the patch over the powder will sometimes hole the patch on the ball.