Help identifying a Springfield 1840 flintlock

[53vortec]

I’m trying to figure out just exactly what this shortened musket is. I’m fairly new to pre-smokeless firearms in general so apologies if I have any history or nomenclature wrong.

The lock is marked Springfield 1843, and the assembly appears to be consistent with a Springfield 1840. Same with the stampings on the barrel. The barrel itself is about 20” long which I assume was a later modification, including a front site and captive ramrod.

One thing I’m curious about is determining if it was ever converted to percussion. As I understand this would be very rare for an 1840, but my untrained eye can’t find any evidence of it.

So my main questions are how much of this gun appears to be original to an 1840?; was it ever converted to percussion?; are the barrel features consistent with any known pieces for trade or collector’s pieces?

Any insight is appreciated.

[ntqlvr1948]

The lock and barrel look original flintlock. As for the rest, it looks like a cut down Springfield musket

[45-110]

That is a very late date for a flintlock, interesting for sure.

[Bigmon]

It looks like a modified model 1816,  However the new model came out in 1842 and they were the first to be manuf as percussion.  Although many model 1816 had been converted.
I do not know, but perhaps they continued making a few flinters after 1842??  Looks like a cavaly carbine?  But the real mystery to me is the date on a flintlock?
Try Fladermansm book?    Good luck

Are you interested in selling it?  I have a desease I call SPRINGFIELD FEVER.

[Daryl]

The model 1842 was the first percussion musket. AFAIK
This one appears to be a gun maker's modified musket, likely long after issue.
The FIRST actual Canoe gun!!

[53vortec]

It looks like a modified model 1816,  However the new model came out in 1842 and they were the first to be manuf as percussion.  Although many model 1816 had been converted.
I do not know, but perhaps they continued making a few flinters after 1842??  Looks like a cavaly carbine?  But the real mystery to me is the date on a flintlock?
Try Fladermansm book?    Good luck

Are you interested in selling it?  I have a desease I call SPRINGFIELD FEVER.

There was a model of 1840 flintlock made by Springfield from 1840 to 1844. I learned this from WESTbury’s post at the link below, which is actually how I found this forum. Im hoping he’ll chime in here!

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62266.0&fbclid=IwAR2ytp0zBX_-S6b8qhxq3-mjve1m1xZ4bl81UDCv7Jl_8lZx5z2Wt-ra5FI_aem_AfsmeoYxx0rucc0Ml4gjkq_Z0uk4GJbhwOYAWnzD2CrK1iLK8aJw8cXwbye0HuTxv4M

As for your other question, ask me again after we figure out what it is lol.

[WESTbury]

TA-DAH!!! Here I am! 

The lock does look original. The Battery Spring and Cock appear to be original as do both the Battery and pan. I'd be interested in seeing a photo of the inside of the lock. The barrel is obviously a cut down original as the "V" "P" Eagle Head are the correct proofs.

Very interesting piece.
Photos attached of the lock from the M1840 that is in my book and my article that was in the Aug 2020 edition of Man at Arms Magazine, Flintlock Musket Evolution at Springfield Armory, Part III.

Hope this helps.

Kent

[53vortec]

TA-DAH!!! Here I am! 

The lock does look original. The Battery Spring and Cock appear to be original as do both the Battery and pan. I'd be interested in seeing a photo of the inside of the lock. The barrel is obviously a cut down original as the "V" "P" Eagle Head are the correct proofs.

Very interesting piece.
Photos attached of the lock from the M1840 that is in my book and my article that was in the Aug 2020 edition of Man at Arms Magazine, Flintlock Musket Evolution at Springfield Armory, Part III.

Hope this helps.

Kent

Wow, given how many you said were converted in your post about these I really didn’t expect this to have possibly been original. I’ll do some studying on what is involved in removing the lock.

[53vortec]

Well that wasn’t nearly as involved as I had feared lol. Here’s the inside of the lock

[Levy]

The only thing that I can contribute is that the barrel band looks like a typical Spanish type that is upside down on your gun.  Usually, the wide part would be under the wooden stock.  Maybe the gun spent some time in the Southwest?  James Levy 

[WESTbury]

53vortec,

Your lock looks to be 100% original. Extremely rare!

Kent

[Bigmon]

Sirs, I am a little confused?  Since that is an original Flintlock and dated 1843, obviously Springfield made them after the change to percussion in the model 1842?

[T.C.Albert]

Are we thinking it’s been civilian sporterized or is it pure martial?
Tim A

[JTR]

I don't know what that gun is, but I'll bet that someone will want to snag that original lock from him!
John

[varsity07840]

From what I can see, it's a parts gun. It's an 1840 lock in an 1816 stock. The barrel band doesn't correspond with any US military types.

[Robert Wolfe]

Could be a Bannerman's special, i.e. made up from various parts.

[Daryl]

What has me puzzled, is the captured ram rod. WHEN was that put on & by whom?

[varsity07840]

No way to know, but it's not an 1816 or 1840 ramrod and the capture swivel isn't from a US musketoon or pistol.

[JV Puleo]

Sirs, I am a little confused?  Since that is an original Flintlock and dated 1843, obviously Springfield made them after the change to percussion in the model 1842?

Kent can correct me on this but I don't know if the first M1842's were actually finished in 1842. That is the year of adoption but sometimes actual production, or at least completion, did not exactly coincide. Also, Springfield worked on a fiscal year that ran from June to July...not the calendar year so parts that are dated in one calendar year were often not used until the next year and production was reported by the Chief of Ordnance according to the fiscal year...(is that confusing enough?)

For instance, the first M1817 Common Rifles were made in 1821.

[Clark Badgett]

Sirs, I am a little confused?  Since that is an original Flintlock and dated 1843, obviously Springfield made them after the change to percussion in the model 1842?

The M1840 was produced until 1844.

[Clark Badgett]

From what I can see, it's a parts gun. It's an 1840 lock in an 1816 stock. The barrel band doesn't correspond with any US military types.

I’m not so sure it’s an 1816 stock as much as it could be a very worked over 1840 stock. It does have a bit more rise in the comb area than normally seen with the 1816 stock.

[2 shots]

 looks like there is a liner in the barrel , am i not seeing a circle around that flash hole??

[Clark Badgett]

looks like there is a liner in the barrel , am i not seeing a circle around that flash hole??

No, just the standard oxidation and the typical large musket hole.

[varsity07840]

looks like there is a liner in the barrel , am i not seeing a circle around that flash hole??

I was questioning that myself but I don’t think it’s a reconversion. There’s no evidence of a “Belgian “ percussion conversion which was the standard method on 1840s.

[JTR]

53vortec,
Check your private messages.
John