Tiger maple conversion 30 caliber partial names

[yankeedorie]

Hi , I picked up an old timer that was a beauty in its day. I have partial name on lock and trigger guard . Im looking for some help identifying these though. Its a 30 caliber with full length tiger maple stock.

The name possibly on the lock in JOSH COLLHER ro COECHER or, possibly JOLLHER.

Name outside the bottom of the trigger guard is possible  W GIETTER.

I am going to post some pictures of the gun and names. Thanks for any help.

[ntqlvr1948]

Jos Golcher

[bluenoser]

It is likely Joseph Golcher.  The Golchers were British lock makers and I believe Joseph was in business between roughly 1834 and 1879.  James and George Golcher also produced locks.
Plenty of good information here.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11201.0
Pay particular attention to reply # 9.  You can take what JV Puleo has to say to the bank.
That is a rather odd cutout for the drum.  Can you post a picture of the whole lock face?

[Daryl]

Cool rifle. Filed rifling at the crown.

[Jim Kibler]

I guess by "conversion" you are saying this rifle was stocked as a flintlock?  This isn't very likely.  Thanks for sharing.

[Tanselman]

The name on the guard may be "W. Stalter" as I look at it. There was a gunsmith named William Stalters who was working in Logan County, Ohio, about the time this gun was made. However, a name on the guard is a non-traditional place for a gunmaker to sign, so it could also be the gun owner's name. The BIG question is... is there any trace of a name or initials on the top barrel flat several inches behind the rear sight? That's where a gun like this would normally be signed by its maker. If anything is there, please post a good picture of it, even if hard to read, since someone here may be able to decipher what's left of it. 

The Goulcher lock is a commercial hardware store lock, available almost anywhere and purchased by the gunsmith, so it has little bearing on where, or by whom, this gun was made.

Shelby Gallien

[yankeedorie]

Hi, thank all of you for commenting on this gun.

There is a whimsical pattern of circles back from the rear sight. I dont believe its a name though Ill post 2 pictures along with a picture of the entire lock as requested

[yankeedorie]

Hi, Happy new year and thanks for contributing here. I believe you are right the W STALTER appears to be clear. Iv added some other information as well. 

[Levy]

I think the pattern that you see engraved behind the rear sight is referred to as guilloche and is sometimes seen on some southern guns from the Carolinas.  I have a late percussion half-stock with that on the barrel too.  James Levy

[altankhan]

Here are links to an article on W. Stalter of Logan, Hocking Co., Ohio in a recent August 2022 issue of AOLRC Newsletter (scroll down in the links to find)


part 1:https://www.aolrc.com/upload/files/5%283%29.pdf


part 2:https://www.aolrc.com/upload/files/6%283%29.pdf

or just go to the is link and search:https://www.aolrc.com/newsletters

[yankeedorie]

Im moved to attempt fixing this gun . I have a machine shop but lack the knowledge, it would be flying blind with no parts or help.
Someone mentioned there is a place on the website I should turn this over to. Stated these guys can help you out. I cannot find the reply . Can anyone help direct me to which topic to post on.
Joe

[JTR]

Joe, As far as I know, there is no place on this site to turn the gun over to.
There are guys here that work on these old things, some say for the better. Some say for the worse. All a matter of opinion.
That said, with your rifle, what do you think you'd like to do to it?
I can see some simple things, like freshening up the wood finish a bit, and apply a coat of browning to the metal parts. If you can do a bit of wood working, add the broken bit of the toe back on, and glue up any broken loose cracks in the stock.
That would be an easy job, and you'd have a nicer looking rifle, with not much expense.
John 

[yankeedorie]

Thanks John, Iv replaced the broken and missing wood. As it looks before and after. Big chunk opposite the hammer dental work on the toe. Add a few pictures.

Sometimes its more difficult to have repairs look as they were done long ago and not look as there wasn't any damage. Have to use some imagination.

 I didn't want to have anyone attempt to fix the lock just point me in some direction other than its not fixable as the locks aren't available .

I tried but cant get the triggers and plate off the stock. Lock had a lot of wear , sharpening it up  helped but the adjustment screw for the set trigger is locked tight. I think that may be whats  the issue. Anyways I have a few pictures. A guy told me its better leaving the lock alone, mashed hammer and nipple talk a story. But if the hammer held I would be happy.

[Tanselman]

Your woodworking skills look good, but I'd like to make one suggestion. The gun would look better if, before the small missing piece of wood in the toe was replaced, the butt plate's toe was straightened a little more, all the way back to its original position so there is no trace of reverse curl left in it, just one continuous smooth curve along the entire butt plate's outer surface. Then the toe plate could be straightened back to its original shape. It's not bad as it is, but to a knowledgeable eye the bit of remaining reverse curl in butt plate's toe immediately draws the eye to the repair.

Afterthought... get rid of those atrocious modern round-headed brass screws attaching the toe plate. Replace them with the correct size small iron, flat-headed wood screws so the heads are smooth/even with the toe plate's surface, like the original screws were. If the current screw holes in wood are too enlarged to hold the correct size small wood screws, just get a couple toothpicks, put a little glue on one end and stick it in hole and snap off at surface. Push toothpick piece against wall of hole. If needed, put another across from it in same manner... or more if needed. Those little pieces of toothpick will let the small screws bite in again and tighten up nicely.

Shelby Gallien

[yankeedorie]

I overlooked the screws , thanks for bringing this to my attention. I hammered the toe back as far as I felt it would go without snapping the cast brass. Also to the the end of where the plate sits. I could soften the brass and do as you say but my intention is to have it appear as an old fix, Iv done a number of repairs that needed to be exact. With the lock so damaged I figured this would pass.
Thanks
Joe

[Bob Roller]

My maternal grandfather told be he bought a general store in the late 1890'sand it had a barrel full of Goulcher locks that were priced at 25 cents each and all of them were still there when he sold the store in 1900 for $1200 in hard currency.I had a new old stock left hand Goulcher lock that was color case hardened and a warped plate to prove it was a bad idea.The vast majority of the American muzzle loaders had low end locks including our own revered Hawken.A few months ago I copied one using a repro J&S marked plate  and correct hammer and it sold immediately which surprised me .
Bob Roller 

[JTR]

I agree with Tanselman.
A little work will go a long way to making it look right.
John

[DaveM]

Neat rifle, and really cool way the gunmaker signed the gun. Many later (mid 1800’s) guns were not signed so you are fortunate.