Black Powder shooting

[83nubnEC]

Has anyone any experience shooting the Lee 50 cal 250 grn R.E.A.L bullet from a flintlock rifle with a barrel twist slower than 1-48"? Say 1-60" or 1-70" twist? Is it necessary to increase the powder charge? Thanks for any info-- PS At 86 yrs young, I love being called a Junior Member   

[Dphariss]

I consider this things to be a waste of time. For various reasons not the least of which is pressure levels and safety concerns.
Background/history.
 470 word explanation deleted.

[Daryl]

Well junior member, you're a LOT older than I am.
As to the R.E.A.L. bullets, I had both weights in .45, the 200gr. and the 220. IIRC, I only cast up the 200gr. Those will put 5 into 2" at 30 yards, from my cap-lock pistol from a rest, using
Lyman black Powder Gold as a lube. The pistol has an 18" ROT.
My rifle, on the other hand, was a flinter with 42" 60" rate of twist, .450 bore. The same 200gr. bullet shot into 1 1/2" at 50 yards using 80gr. 2F GOEX & shot to the sights
that were set using patched round ball and 65gr. to 70gr. 3F.
I could easily shoot 10 of them with no wiping, then load and shoot a wet-lubed patched round ball.
I stopped testing them when a member from our club who had tested the R.E.A.L. bullets on several deer and told me they killed no better than patched round balls.
I still have the mould, however it would cost more to send it to you, than the darn things cost.

[83nubnEC]

Thank you Daryl. I only plan to try them out for a reload if necessary for a second follow up shot hunting if needed. In my Kibler Woodsrunner with a patched round ball it will put my 50 cal roundball in a 1 hole group at 25 yds. Rested off the table of course and will do just about as well off the shootingstick. Didn't get the shot hunting this past season to break in the rifle.

[Daryl]

You need to test them yourself to see where and how they shoot as to powder charge. I expect you will want the same poi as with round ball. That will likely take MORE powder as the
slug weighs about 70gr. more than a .495" round ball.
They load easily as probably, only 2 of the bands will engrave on the lands. Easy loading.

[Huckleberry]

Green Mtn Barrel 1:70 twist

[TDM]

I have the Lee .50 cal mold that drops a .490 rb and a REAL. The REAL does great in my old 1:48 Renegade, but never tried them in a round ball twist.

[Daryl]

Good looking results. I wonder if the patch prevented the bullet from slugging up.
Are the bullets not large enough to cut on the rifling? If they do engrave upon loading, no patch nor wads are needed.
My .45 cal. rifle did not need any wads or patches. Loading all those wads and a patch takes up more time than needed
to load a patched round ball.
I do not "see" the need for the slugs in this case. I thought they were for a fast second shot if needed.

[Huckleberry]

Just use a speed loader - about as fast as it gets

[83nubnEC]

All reloads are fast if you can get the second shot off before the deer is in the next county.

[Daryl]

Using paper ctgs. I was able to fire an aimed second shot, 8 seconds after the first shot, but I was not
shooting such a small calibre gun. I don't know if a paper ctg. would work in a .50, or not. Mine were tapered
for ease of handling and no loss of powder after ripping the small end off with my teeth. Shove the small end into the muzzle and it will stop at the ball,
then push the ball down with the rod, drop the rod, cap, aim and fire. 8 seconds was as fast as I could do it. I could not load a patched round ball or slug
as quickly as the paper ctg.

[Dphariss]

The people that set up the traditional ML season ( no inlines etc) in Montana in their “wisdom” outlawed paper cartridges. Dunno if this also applies to use in the General Season or not. Silly I suppose I could see if its possible to get this changed.

[Daryl]

Weird ruling, Dan. Just thinking about this and might have been due to the possibility of causing fires.
If the paper ctg., is not tight & allows blowby, I suppose a fire might occur. The paper in my ctg. always came out as confetti
with never a burn. Same thing happened wit B Stricklin - no fires. Same with Dan.

[davesonic444]

Are. Paper ctg as accurate as a patched round ball?

[Daryl]

3 of us have found out they are. But! I will reiterate here that the patch must be tight to the bore. Mine were and gave identical point of impact and group at 100 meters.
I think Dan and Bruce tested their paper ctgs. at 50 yards.
I did not lube the paper surrounding the ball, but that would also be  a possibility. I could fire 10 paper ctgs., then load and fire an 82gr. (3drams) charge with wet patch and
ball to clean the barrel, then another 10 ctgs. with identical accuracy. My ctgs. were for moose hunting, so held my Moose Load of 165gr. 2F & the WW(12brinel).682" ball.
Seems to me, Bruce tested down to .54 cal. with positive results.
I would expect at some point in calibre, the pressure developed in the smaller bores will cause trouble as in gas blowby and perhaps igniting the patch.