Lead Shot Alternative

[Greg Pennell]

Friends, I have a question for some of the more experienced smoothbore shooters.  A friend just contacted me today, asking about using alternative “lead free” shot in his flintlock fowling piece. He’s considering using it for turkey loads, based on the reputation that it has for making denser patterns. He’s shooting a 20 gauge (don’t know the manufacturer, but it’s a relatively recent piece), and I’m sure it’s cylinder bore.

Does the group have knowledge/opinions/experience with these types of shot (tungsten, polymer, Hevi-shot, etc.)?  I have ZERO experience, and don’t want to give bad advice.

Thanks,
Greg

[snapper]

I use bismuth.  Ballistic Products carry's it.  It is not cheap, but for hunting, I dont use that much in a year.

Fleener

[snapper]

Pulled from their website:

Fleener

Overall Pellet Softness: Bismuth is the softest metal of all available non-toxic shot types. Bismuth is much softer than any barrel iron and steel shotgun barrels. Therefore it is the non-toxic shot that is easiest on your fine shotgun.
Sizes: We stock sizes for a wide range of game; from heavy goose loads down to upland loads.
Bismuth shot hits like lead shot, but won't harm barrels and chokes, which means that it is ideal for use as a non-toxic shot in fine double-barrel shotguns, smallbore shotguns and any other shotguns with fixed chokes. Care and proper loading techniques must be observed in order to load bismuth shot effectively. Follow BPI load data for your best bismuth performance.

[Daryl]

Years ago when the push for non-toxic shot became a "thing", Bismuth was OK'd for antique shotguns or SxS persuasion.
With a modern barrel, I'd likely be using something like #7 1/2 tungsten. I've read here and elsewhere it is super for turkey.

[Pukka Bundook]

Greg,
You didn't ask this, but if your friend wants to try an alternative to lead Just for denser patterns, he can get denser patterns With lead simply by lowering powder
volume compared to shot.
That and going a size larger in the shot department if he wants.

If He Can't use lead for legal reasons, that's a different game of course!

Many blow their patterns by overloading the powder though, with whatever shot they are using.
One dram to a half ounce of shot has worked from then, up to now. (ie, 2 drams for an ounce, etc)

Daryl,
In modern barels I'd like to try the tungsten polymer shot, as a small shot size sounds like just the ticket, apart from price!

[DanL]

Some folks are shy about using TSS in traditional smooth bores. Each for his own. This is one non-lead option.

I performed a bit of experimenting using the TSS as an alternative for lead. Experiment for your own situation.  The following is what I found:

Some folks need/want non-lead shot options. I have performed a bit of research with very little information forthcoming about using TSS in traditional smoothbores. Folks say it will ruin you barrel or the plastic shotgun wads will melt and leave nasty residue in your barrel. Well, I ran a couple of test on my Chambers .62 English officers fusil with a 41” barrel which is jug choked.

I acquired some #9 TSS, some non-slit plastic 20 gauge shotgun wads designed for TSS and a plastic shotgun wad slitter.

I compared weight to volume for TSS with a digital scale and my standard powder measure. I found:

1 ounce (by weight) of TSS = 40 grains (by volume) in my powder measure
1.5 oz ( by weight) of TSS = 60 grains (by volume)
1.75 oz ( by weight) of TSS = 70 grains ( by volume)

I tested several loads but here is my best load so far: (30 yards distance).

70 grains FFG Goex powder
1   1/8” nitro card edge lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube
1   1/8” wool felt wad lightly lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube
1  plastic shotgun wad (for TSS) slit fully and trimmed to length of shot column
70 grains #9 TSS
1 over shot card

Findings:

No evidence of burning/melting plastic wads.
No evidence of plastic residue in barrel.
Wads have powder residue staining but could be used again.
No evidence of TSS dimpling the wads.
No evidence of damage to the barrel.
Jug choke did not appear to have influenced the pattern using plastic shotgun wads.


Good luck experimenting.
Happy trails.

Hand drawn target has a neck length of ~10" for reference.









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[J.M.Browning]

Ive been shooting modern shot cups since 1974 - the only issues that is the negative uneducated  information . Use shot cups !

[axelp]

I have had very good success using ITX shot from TomBob Outdoors. I have harvested Turkey, and Squirrels with it on a regular basis since the hunting lead ban here in Commyfornia. I find it patterns better than lead shot out of my Jim Chambers PA Fowler as well as my TVM French Tulle. both in .62 cal.

[Hungry Horse]

 What the heck, don’t nobody make anything themselves anymore? I use lead free pewter from the goodwill, or junk stores, to cast my shot. It isn’t perfect, but the turkeys, and squirrels, don’t seem to notice. I pour it through a home made shot sieve made from an old colander that was aluminum, and has a finer set of holes in the bottom of it. I melt my metal in something that hasn’t had lead in it, because I’ve heard just a small amount of lead contact can be detected by Fish&Wildlifes equipment. It helps if the shot rolls down a short metal ramp before it drops a few feet into a bucket of water.
 The game just seems to taste better if it’s shot with home made shot.

Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

The "steel" shot cups are harder, more dense material than the lead shot trap wads I tested back in the 70's and 80's. 
Those soft plastic wads did coat the bore with plastic, melted off them by the black powder. I found putting a hard card between
 the powder and plastic wad prevented this.
This shooting was in a 12 bore SxS.

[bob in the woods]

For ducks and geese [ waterfowl ] I use bismuth and make the shot myself using a
Rupert's shot maker I got from Peter Goebel ,  coppersmith at Goose Bay Workshop
I use #4 lead shot for pretty much everything else, unless launching a round ball

[Greg Pennell]

Thanks for all the replies, and information!  I’ll send my buddy a link to this thread, as I don’t think he’s a member here (but he should be).  Maybe this will get him to join in all the fun!

The knowledge base here never ceases to amaze me.

Greg

[axelp]

As an aside, I do not use shot cups out of my muzzleloading guns. I have no need to, as the ITX lead-free shot is soft enough that it will not harm my barrel and the patterns I get are very acceptable. I have hunted exclusively with ITX shot since 2009.

[Pukka Bundook]

Ken,
I will have to look up ITX shot. not heard of it before!
Sheltered life and all that..

[Scota4570]

The ITX I am familiar with is extremely hard.  There was a product called Nice Shot that was soft and tungsten based.  Any links to a soft tungsten shot? 

[Pukka Bundook]

Scota,
Wouldn't the tungsten polymer be classed as soft?

[axelp]

ITX, the regular shot variety can be crushed easily with a pair of pliers. They have an "extreme" version that might be harder, but I have not handled or  tried it. ITX is safe for cylinder barrels etc... but they do caution using it in full choked barrels.

K

[Bill in Md]

When I feel the need for a "lead shot alternative", I simply go into the cupboard and scoop out some lead shot from the big sack that is far in the back and load up with it, as opposed to using the lead shot in the brass dispenser in my shooting box.

[Scota4570]

I was not aware that tungsten matrix (polymer) shot was available as loose shot.  Kent loads shells with it.  The density is only 10.8 g/cc.  I was not impressed by the performance on game. 

The most important thing with  any shot is density.  Lead is around 12 g/cc.  Steel is only 7.8.  Some tungsten blends are less than lead and IMHO not worth the bother.  There is significant deception regarding density by a well known shotshell maker.

Tungsten with a density greater than lead works better than lead.  TSS can have densities of around 18.  That stuff is amazing.  IT is also extremely expensive.  Given the low velocity of black powder load I would be using the high density stuff.  Hi density shot holds the already low velocity better. 

I know from first hand experience that steel shot in a ML, for duck hunting, is as useless as shooting blanks. 

One other factor, you must be able to prove you are shooting approved non-toxic shot in the field when confronted.  Home spun shot made of something other than lead is not acceptable.   Normally proof is based on the label in the box of shells.  I carry manufactures documentation with me for hand loads.

Some wardens carry a device called a "hot shot" that is used to perform an elemental analysis in the field. 

[axelp]

I carry the packaging label in my bag when hunting and ITX is easily identifiable as definitely not lead. But... in the USA I think there still exists the law that a person is innocent until proven guilty. I have never been confronted out in the field by a fish & game officer so not sure if they all take their vow about the US Constitution seriously. I expect some still do. We live in poor times when it comes to hunting-- at least in CA. Life is too short to worry too hard about it though.

K

[Austin]

TTS #9 plastic shotcup and a skycheif oil soaked fiber wad on top…extends range and lethal

[axelp]

We all have different aims when hunting with 300 year old tech. I kind of like to embrace the limitations--- at least as much as I can and within current and ever changing laws. I have tried a glued paper shot cup-- that's about as modern as I have tried in my flintlock smoothbore. Putting plastic down the bore seems counter to why I do this sort of thing... but I probably take other shortcuts and sleep fine. I get pretty fair results with just wads.

K

[Daryl]

I wish these were available.
Imagine, from your, cylinder bored gun, the ability to shoot ducks and geese to over 80yards.
Or 40/50/60? Tailor's shot release for nothing but head and neck hits on turkey, with normal cheap lead shot.
Of course, there would be a price to pay, for the shot ctgs.

[Pukka Bundook]

Daryl,
The Eley wire cartridges were not all they were cracked up to be.
Sometimes they worked brilliantly, but at other times failed miserably.
We can read in Hawker and such, of closer birds being blown to pieces, and at times the cartridge staying complete as a bullet, not opening up at all.
The main problem by what I have read, is Where the cartridge was in relation to where the gun was pointing. 
In other words, at longer range the cartridge could be way off where the centre of the pattern was expected to be.

A good gun with a longer barrel and normal loads could and still can produce excellent results once the proper load has been found.
Keith Neil recalls shooting a single pigeon as it flew from a tree with a long barreled Twigg I believe, at 75 yards.

Loaded the old way, I recall a right and left at jays back in England, with a double 18 bore, at a shade under 70 yards.  No 7 shot and TS2 if I remember right.

[Scota4570]

I was once told of using 16 ga plastic shots cups, wrapped in fishing line, with a top wad, inserted in a 12 ga cup.  The pattern at extended distances was super tight, on the board.  When all went well the fishing line unraveled in flight.  The assembly popped open down range.  In theory..........  Actually the shot trickled out of the assembly in flight creating a super long shot string.  Shooting over water showed this problem.  I bet the old eley version did the same. 

None of it matters in the real world.  Hitting a duck at 80-100 yards requires an incredibly long and precise lead.  When you have to crank out 20 or more feet, and get it right to within 2 feet the odds are low to make a square hit and recover the bird. 

I see TSS as a way to shoot a light payload of small shot at normal ranges that fully penetrates the bird and makes a clean kill.