cleaning my SMR .36

[foresterdj]

Went out today and shot24 shots, no cleaning between shots. When done, wiped with a patch with Hoppes cleaner/lube.

Got home, pulled lock sprayed with Ballistol and set aside, wiped around touch hole, filled barrel with tap water (tooth pick in touch hole). Set down for a snack (delicious King Oscar Sardines).

Dumped the water, squirted some Hoppes in bore and used breach scrapper, which came it with some gunk as usual. Ran brass bore brush several strokes. Refilled with water and dumped, pulling the tooth pick. Then ran this series of patches.

2 patches with Hoppes.



then 2 with water




then 3 with ballistol



then 3 with Hoppes



then 1 with water



two more with ballistol



a dry patch



and an oil patch




imagehost


I quit here, just because, even though it still does not seem clean to me. Some days it seems I could scrub forever and never come out with a clean as it went in patch. Patches 3 and 4, with water made it seem like it was getting close, but switching in ballistol or hoppes and black streaks again. The simple clean with a few patches some here describe is never my experience.

[Moleman]

I still have the the same problem but since I've went to Dawn and water for patch lube it's not nearly as bad.
I will admit that sometimes getting the bore as clean as I'd like is kind of like pushing a rope uphill 

[David G]

foresterdj, do your cleaning  patches feel snug fitting ? Reason I ask is on most of the barrels I clean I incorporate a square of paper towel to go on top of the cleaning patch and then push down. Cleaning patch material is super flannel I get at Walmart. That combination works well on the barrels I clean and definitely use fewer patches doing it this way.

[Leatherbark]

With my Kibler 45, I remove the lock and put the toothpick in the touchhole and fill with hot tap water and take it outside and remove the toothpick at the same time I put the patched cleaning rod in the bore push hard and flush out the gunk under high pressure out the touchhole.

I do this three times. The first two have a soapy patch the last one is just warm or hot water. I then dry patch a couple of times.
 I then squirt WD40 down the bore and use swab two times with a WD40 patch.  The last WD40 patch removed from the barrel looks like I just soaked it with WD40. Then I oil with whatever oil I have. Usually motor oil.  A week or two later I'll run a patch down the bore and it just comes out oily.....................This system does get the stock wet though but it works for me.

Bob

[Dphariss]

I you just wipe the bore with a White Lightling vent liner you may end up with “blackpowder concrete in some nook or cranny of the bore. This is even more likely with a BO “cleaner/solvent” that has petroleum in it. Remove the lock and wipe the fouling off the barrel with a wet patch. Plug vent with toothpick pour in enough tepid (hot is a mistake, flash rusting) water and maybe a little Dawn to fill the bore 20-30%, Put your thumb over the muzzle and up end it 2-3 times to slosh. Dump water. Patch with a fairly loose patch, then repeat process twice more, wet patch till clean with tighter patches until clean. Don’t blow the tooth pick out with a tight patch and too much water in the bore. One the tight wet patches are clean. Then run down a dry one or two and then pull out the tooth pick to pull air through the bore and vent.
Then put in a new tooth pick and spray a water displacing aerosol in the bore, enough to run down to the breech and puddle a little. Clean lock, dry and lube as needed. Now (maybe before lubing the lock) stand the gun muzzle down on a about 6 layers of folded paper towel for a few minutes to drain. This will get any water that might still be in there out. Wipe with 2 dry patches and pull the tooth pick. Use the now oily patches to wipe down the cleaned barrel . Reassemble. Stand rifle over night muzzle down the make sure no oil runs into the stock. If you wonder about black on the drying patches. Set them aside to dry and look at them in 2-3 days. BP fouling will be black or gray. Iron oxide will be rust colored.

[smylee grouch]

I have had great results using just water, snug flannel patch and a pumping flushing action. Most times only one patch does the job but I use two just to check. Then about three or four dry ones and then a real wet WD 40 patch with another dry one to get excess WD 40 out. Done it this way for over 50 years and it works.

[Daryl]

Dan's method will work very well if the barrel is left on the gun. It just takes a LOT of patches.
We (Taylor and I along with everyone who owns one of his rifles(that I know of)) remove the barrel for cleaning. With the longrifles, I leave the rod in the pipes as added strength
to the wimpy stocks & gently set aside the stock. The locks and barrel are both removed and the barrel is submerged into a container of water, usually a 1 gallon stainless pail.
I clean my guns more like SmyleeG. 6 patches and it's done. Sometimes, depending on temperature, 4. It take me one to clean, and 4 or 5 to dry and oil.
The important thing is tepid water - cool or cold. Hot water can cause accumulative rusting/pitting problems. We've had to lap more than one pitted barrel due to the person cleaning
with HOT water.
Some folks have noted the dark grey streaks on patches after the bore has been dried, as-have I. For me, these turn red with rust over night, so they are caused by picking tiny bits of
metal (visible, not microscopic) off the barrel due to friction of the cloth, I assume. I've been told these dark streaks are "carbon" fouling from the powder, however I ran some carbon solvent
down the bore and that came out without ANY discoloration. Must have been from the steel itself.
As well, after the bore is dry & the last drying patch is almost impossible to pull out of the bore, the WD40 spray, then patching, that patch comes out wet with WD40- no streaks either. Same
thing days later - wet is all.
The whole cleaning process takes 5 or 6 minutes is all. It takes much longer to "properly" clean a modern rifle barrel.

[Scota4570]

When I started using a fouling scraper I was amazed at how much builds up on the face of the breechplug.  I found that unless I get the plug face clean I keep getting bits of black on the patches indefinitely.

Notching the breech plug makes it impossible to clean the plug face.  This is one reason I think a notched breech plug stinks. 

Overall grey patches seems to be from polishing the steel.  If I polish a bore with JB, Flitz,  or Semichrome the patch comes up black.  That is from cutting microscopic amounts of metal from the bore.  If I polish a bore I am confident that there is no more fouling.  Maybe a JB patch at the end of the cleaning is good insurance?

[Daryl]

With the normal flush cleaning(end of barrel in water), there is never a need for scraping anything.  The end of the patch on the jag gets cut on the breech plug, but is NEVER dirty after flush cleaning the bore.
There is no fouling there. On the flinters, the patch doesn't get cut (only on "hollowed" patent breeches), but again, no fouling comes off the face of the breech plug - it's clean.
I would assume if someone used one of the tubing, clamp or magnet onto the side of the barrel and the other end in a bucket, there would no no fouling left on the breech face due to the flushing action.
Patent breech on a flinter? How could it be cleaned without at least putting "some" water into the bore, then forcing it out the vent or nipple seat under pressure?

[togo]

With the normal flush cleaning(end of barrel in water), there is never a need for scraping anything.  The end of the patch on the jag gets cut on the breech plug, but is NEVER dirty after flush cleaning the bore.
There is no fouling there. On the flinters, the patch doesn't get cut (only on "hollowed" patent breeches), but again, no fouling comes off the face of the breech plug - it's clean.
I would assume if someone used one of the tubing, clamp or magnet onto the side of the barrel and the other end in a bucket, there would no no fouling left on the breech face due to the flushing action.
Patent breech on a flinter? How could it be cleaned without at least putting "some" water into the bore, then forcing it out the vent or nipple seat under pressure?

 I have been flushing my barrels for years with water and a few drops of dawn for a long time, I thought the same as you until someone gave me a scraper for my trade gun. I used it on a "cleaned" barrel after it was put away for awhile, after scraping I had a nice pile of black on a paper towel. I just order a scraper for each of my other calibers of longrifles. We will see what they show when I get them.

[J.M.Browning]

I have used warm - hot water repeat with 409 household cleaner twice nylon bore brush - Antique Damascus , brass modern barrels then patch dry then Hoppes no 9 . Done . All have had hooked breech easy clean , till this ALR I'm not going to remove the barrel to clean other ways to use my time . So the rifle see's very little action I do shoot daily . All this is subjective and should be taken as such .

[Robby]

I polish the face of my breech plug and I notch the face of some breech plugs when the architecture makes it necessary, I use no scraper. Checking with a light shows mirror bright. I use room temperature water, sometimes a Ballistol water solution. Everything gets blown out the touch hole. Pretty much as Daryl describes.
Robby

[alacran]

If you ask this question to a hundred shooters you will get one hundred different answers. One of the best flintlock shooters I have ever known, never cleaned a rifle close to what you are getting. He was very hard to beat and set quite a few records at the Western Nationals.
I would say what works for you is all that matters.
If you put 91% isopropyl alcohol on a patch after you think the barrel is clean, you will get quite a lot of black on that patch. 99% isopropyl is available, but is very expensive.
 I only do the flushing method on guns on which the barrel comes out with wedges. Don.t like the idea of removing pins every time I clean a gun.
Before I have a rifle thoroughly cleaned I shoot a couple of blasts with my discharger. It cleans out the touch hole.

[Pukka Bundook]

Robby.
I was going to write exactly what you wrote, but you saved me the trouble!

Only thing I could add is I sometimes have case hardened the face of the plug, so it just stays mirror bright. on a .50 or larger, I can look down the barrel out in the daylight and see all the way down as the plug acts as a reflector.

[83nubnEC]

Offhand, I can't think of the Member who makes the magnet/tubing cleaning kit that I use; but it does a great job when using the pumping action while cleaning my flintlocks. Never thought to add a little Dawn to the water when cleaning. I do use a mixture of Dawn and water for lube when shooting.

[Dphariss]

With the normal flush cleaning(end of barrel in water), there is never a need for scraping anything.  The end of the patch on the jag gets cut on the breech plug, but is NEVER dirty after flush cleaning the bore.
There is no fouling there. On the flinters, the patch doesn't get cut (only on "hollowed" patent breeches), but again, no fouling comes off the face of the breech plug - it's clean.
I would assume if someone used one of the tubing, clamp or magnet onto the side of the barrel and the other end in a bucket, there would no no fouling left on the breech face due to the flushing action.
Patent breech on a flinter? How could it be cleaned without at least putting "some" water into the bore, then forcing it out the vent or nipple seat under pressure?

I agree with Daryl.
 I have NEVER had fouling build up on a breech face or in a “cup” or patent breech. I have seen it. And heard fo it from a friend. But if the shooter used enough WATER to clean and none of the silly concoctions dreamed up of the last 50+ years with various petroleum oils etc in them its unlikely there will be an issue. If you need a breech scraper you ar doing something wrong.
If enough water is not used and fouling is constantly pushed to the breech. If homemade or store bought BP “solvents” are used then the sky is the limit. Also the first wet patch need not be tight. A large loose fit patch will run over the fouling and then pull it out the muzzle as it bunches up on the return stroke.
I have two swivel breech rifles, one with no way to easily remove the barrels and the other is pretty easy. I have 2 other rifles with long pointy tangs. So barrel in the bucket it not always possible. If I shoot both barrels of the one swivel I can pretty easily remove the barrels and put the breeches in a plastic bucket. If I only shoot one barrel or on the other swivel I use this. It its not possible with the rifle then its plug the vent and pour in some water as previously noted. Nothing cleans BP like water and maybe a little detergent.

[Eric Krewson]

I started using this stuff, the first thing it does is to neutralize the corrosive stuff in B/P, three wet patches, three dry patches, a squirt of WD, a couple of dry patches and a patch soaked with 30W motor oil and I am done. I understand the black is graphite, I don't get too upset if I see a little of it on a patch. I do use a plug scraper if I have been shooting a lot. I don't plug the vent when I start putting wet patches down the bore, I put a paper towel over the vent to catch the spray and hold in place with a spring clip.



Looks pretty clean to me, this picture is to see how it worked the first time that I used it.

[Dphariss]

One other thing. I have a rifle with a Nock breech. It has a “cleanout” screw in the antechamber opposite the vent. Since its a hook breech I clean it in the bucket. Pumping water through the vent. I have only pulled the “cleanout” screw a couple of times to check after cleaning and the antechamber is always perfectly clean.
This is the breech looking in from the bore end. It shows the passage to the antechamber. If the antechamber will clean perfectly with just water pushed and pulled through it from the vent it shows that if a breech scraper is needed  something is not being done properly in the cleaning process.



NOW if for some reason you are shooting “naked” bullets and lead the bore then the water cleaning process may well need to be followed with Hoppes #9 (the original) in a completely dry bore that has been “dried” with denatured alcohol. Hoppe’s #9 on the tight patch does pretty good job of grabbing the lead and removing it. But I have had only one ML bullet rifle and that was longer ago than I like to think about. I use it in suppository rifles.

[Dphariss]

I started using this stuff, the first thing it does is to neutralize the corrosive stuff in B/P, three wet patches, three dry patches, a squirt of WD, a couple of dry patches and a patch soaked with 30W motor oil and I am done. I understand the black is graphite, I don't get too upset if I see a little of it on a patch. I do use a plug scraper if I have been shooting a lot.



Looks pretty clean to me, this picture is to see how it worked the first time that I used it.

BP fouling need not be “neutralized” it just needs to be washed away. Since its not really corrosive in of itself. And in low humidity <30% IIRC, will not rust bare polished steel in a month if kept in a building. Yeah I have done this as a test back  about 1980 with GOEX which at the time was not made with entirely pure ingredients. But I still clean firearms shot with BP at the first opportunity.

[Spalding]

I started using this stuff, the first thing it does is to neutralize the corrosive stuff in B/P, three wet patches, three dry patches, a squirt of WD, a couple of dry patches and a patch soaked with 30W motor oil and I am done. I understand the black is graphite, I don't get too upset if I see a little of it on a patch. I do use a plug scraper if I have been shooting a lot.



Looks pretty clean to me, this picture is to see how it worked the first time that I used it.

BP fouling need not be “neutralized” it just needs to be washed away. Since its not really corrosive in of itself. And in low humidity <30% IIRC, will not rust bare polished steel in a month if kept in a building. Yeah I have done this as a test back  about 1980 with GOEX which at the time was not made with entirely pure ingredients. But I still clean firearms shot with BP at the first opportunity.

What is this “ less than 30% humidity” you speak of?🙂

Bob

[Daryl]

As Dan noted, these work. Mine did and quite well. I just prefer to remove the barrel because I can.
I preferred a stiffer 'pipe' and wrapped a chunk of lead around it for better "hold" in the bucket when pressuring the water back into the bucket.

[smylee grouch]

If using a brass brush beware that when you get it to the bottom and have to reverse the brush you risk pulling the brush apart leaving half of it down in the breech end. Nylon brushes are less of a problem to reverse.

[Marvin S]

Try a .38 to .40 cal bore mop to swab it out before checking with patches. Much more surface area with the mop. Otherwise your method seems fine.

Wash the bore mop when done, I like simple green.

[Leatherbark]

1800's cleaning advice. 

Using tallow on the patch, shoot the rifle every day at a squirrel. Reload the rifle and put it over the fireplace mantel. Eat the squirrel if you didn't miss and never have to clean the rifle.

Bob

[Daryl]

Just get it refreshed, every few years.