Author Topic: Finish Question  (Read 873 times)

Offline koauke

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Finish Question
« on: March 24, 2024, 08:47:34 AM »
Hello all,  I posted on another forum, but thought I might get some additional suggestions posting here as well.  I'm putting together my first kit, a Kibler woodsrunner.  I used iron nitrate for stain.  I applied a first coat of finish today and once it dried, it dried much darker than when first applied.  I'm using Laurel Mountain Forge Permalyn Sealer.  It dried almost a deep chocolate, though under bright light it appears lighter.  It's not a terrible color just much darker than I had hoped.  I was expecting it to be similar to when the first coat of finish was first applied.

A couple of novice questions:

1.  I suppose there is no way to lighten it up at this point if I wanted to?  Or should I just let it be what it decides to be?

2.  I applied the initial coat with a scotch bright pad.  Are additional coats applied in the same way or with a cloth?  Or is either way is fine?

First pic was right after the first coat was applied, the second is about 6 hours later.






new pic free download
« Last Edit: March 24, 2024, 08:57:04 AM by koauke »

Offline beagle74

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2024, 02:25:09 PM »
I can't help with lightening the color or not but I like that color.

Offline J.M.Browning

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2024, 02:34:08 PM »
You could sand it back - I would darken more but that's my subjective taste .
Thank you Boone , Glass with all the contemplate I read with todays (shooter's lightly taken as such) , you keep things simple .

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18936
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2024, 03:52:24 PM »
Buff it with 4-0 steel wool and see if that helps any.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9758
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2024, 04:58:52 PM »
Thats how its supposed to look.
You can do what you want but the more you mess with it the more artificial it will look.

And permalyn is not a good finish,  none of the synthetics look as good as boiled linseed oil or a soft LS oil varnish. Bivins used it to meet a time line not for how good it was. Varathane is particularly bad looks like the wood figure was painted.
Below is found in Bill Knight’s and Williams Mende’s “Staining and Finishing For Muzzleloading Gun Builders”
Paraphrased for the most part.
“The modern polymers being pushed as linseed oil replacements suffer the problem of chemical decomposition shortly after being applied… the chemicals produced in the process serve to catalyze decomposition..”
The previous paragraph speaks to, debunks, the claims of the various problems of natural drying oils, rotting wood due to acidity, when done properly a linseed oil finish has a lower organic acid level than most modern finishes. And that the natural drying oils tend to continue to polymerize over time and then break down. But ignoring that “.. this “life cycle”  takes hundreds of years with a well made oil film.”

This book was published by Dixon’s who owns the rights and I suspect is out of print as a result. Mine just appeared in the mail one day IIRC.

Most modern finishes are far too thin, they are generally 90-95% solvents. As is Permalyn, so they “dry” by evaporation of the solvents the fumes of which are not something I care the breath. The high level of solvents means there is relatively little actual finish in a cup full of the stuff.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline koauke

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2024, 06:06:08 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions, it looks lighter under that light. It’s pretty dark in person.  I think I'll just go with it.

I took these pics this morning outside, overcast out, but its natural light.









« Last Edit: March 24, 2024, 06:21:21 PM by koauke »

Offline JLayne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2024, 07:03:21 PM »
Watch Jim Kibler’s videos on finishing. He uses a small square of maroon scotchbrite to apply the finish and rub the color back simultaneously. The scothbrites can be gotten at Lowe’s or Home Depot. He is using an oil finish thinned 50/50 with turpentine to scrub the stock until he achieves the color he wants. Once he rubs the stock back to the desired color, then I believe he adds additional coats of finish at full strength until the desired level of sheen is reached.

Jay

Offline mgbruch

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2024, 03:18:00 AM »
That's where I like my guns after the initial blushing.  Then I rub it back with purple Scotch Brite.  Then I apply a cover stain; sometimes two different ones, to get the color I want.  After that I burnish the whole gun, then apply the finish.

I would second watching Mr. Kibler's video.  If you received a piece to experiment on, that would be good.

Offline koauke

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2024, 04:44:04 AM »
Thanks again for the suggestions, I picked up some grey ultra fine scotch brite pads.  Figured I could scrub a bit harder and not have to worry so much.  Just finished up with the third coat of permalyn this evening.  Maybe one or two more coats?

Glad I didn’t do too much to it.  It’s really starting to look nice.  A couple pics in the evening sun.




« Last Edit: March 25, 2024, 05:38:56 AM by koauke »

Offline ScottH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2024, 07:25:55 PM »
IMHO, you are doing well and the stock is looking good.
 8)

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15087
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2024, 08:22:53 PM »
Now a couple coats of tung oil would work for me, then rubbed back a bit. I use my finger tips and put drops of oil on the stock, rubbing that in then move to a different location until the stock has
THAT coat on it, then let it harden, repeat as necessary. I don's flood the stock as some do, then wipe that off. I think maybe that is wasteful, but I have never tried that method. I touch a finger in the oil and dab the stock in a small area then rub it in.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline sdilts

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
Re: Finish Question
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2024, 03:10:22 AM »
I'm a finger dabber too, Daryl. Seems I can control it better that way.