After neutralizing Barrel Brown, 3 days later barrel is gritty with rust dust

[jstedfast]

Hey all, so I (thought I) properly neutralized the Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown solution on my barrel a few days ago, but when I picked it up today, my hands became covered in a gritty rust powder.

From Laurel Mountain Forge's instructions:

Once you have achieved the desired depth of color you need to neutralize the browning process. To stop further action, scrub the surface of the barrel using a solution of hot tap water and baking soda. The familiar Arm & Hammer brand works fine.  Use a clean cloth and an old toothbrush to apply the neutralizing solution and remove any of the remaining scale. Next rinse the barrel well with clear hot water and allow to flash dry.

To finish the barrel, heat the surface with a torch until it is too warm to comfortably touch with bare hands, about 1250 to 1300 F. This will drive off any remaining moisture. Next apply a liberal coat of motor oil. Allow the oil to bond with the brown for 24 hours and then polish off any excess with a soft dry cloth. Apply a final finish of a quality gun oil, non-abrasive furniture wax or neutral color shoe wax.

I used a fairly significant amount of baking soda in a mix of the hottest tap water I could get from my faucet (pretty hot, hot enough to give a first degree burn for sure) and used a rag and a toothbrush to wash down the barrel. Afterward, I threw out that water+baking soda mix and used straight hot tap water to wash it down with a fresh rag and then a Heat Gun to heat up the barrel to drive off the moisture. That left to white streaks, so I wiped down the barrel again and repeated the process.

After that was done and no white streaks remained from any remaining baking soda, I coated the barrel in motor oil and let it hang for about a day, wiped it down (the rag I used became a rusty brown in the process) and applied Ballistol oil. I want to say that was Saturday or Sunday at the latest.

Today, picking up the barrel, it was gritty again and my hands were covered in rust powder.

I'm thinking I should probably try neutralizing it again with hot tap water and baking soda, but before I do that, I thought maybe I'd ask on this forum to see if anyone with experience could provide me some insights on how to deal with this (and/or tell me "oh, don't worry about that, it's normal").

Laurel Mountain Forge's instructions seem to indicate that if the solution remains on the barrel without being properly neutralized much over 24 hours, the barrel could/would get pitting but I don't think I've seen any indication of that, so that's a relief.

[bama]

What I have found in most all of the browning solutions that I have used is that the best thing in stopping the rusting process is time. I have used baking soda but it never really stopped the process. I have found that if I will continue to wipe the barrel down daily with oil for about a week to 10 days the process will eventually stop. I have also found that the finer the finish you put on the barrel the sooner the process stops. If you card the barrel daily it will also help the process end earlier.

[Bob Gerard]

And use a LOT of oil afterwards. Sometimes two applications a day.

[jstedfast]

Thanks guys.

I just put on another (liberal, but not dripping) coat of Ballistol and wiped off all the grit in the process.

I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes.

[jstedfast]

Actually, should I heat it up with a heat gun again and then apply a coat of the Ballistol oil while it's still warm? I might do that after work.

[okawbow]

Thin synthetic motor oil rubbed in with fine steel wool works great for me. Leaves a smooth finish abd a couple of applications seems to do the trick.

[Hawg]

I used ammonia. No rust.

[hortonstn]

I'm having the same problem I've done all the steps the barrel has been browned about three weeks
Still rust every morning I've even put a coat of boiled linseed oil on the barrel as to a members suggestion I guess all I can do is oil and wait .

[bluenoser]

Having encountered the same problem with the LMF product, I now soak my browned and blued parts in washing soda, which has eliminated the problem.  Washing soda is a significantly stronger base than baking soda.  The PH of washing soda is 11.4, compared to 8.3 for baking soda.  Household ammonia, which has a PH of 11 - 13, should be just as effective - and will do a better job of clearing your sinuses .

[Roger B]

Heat the barrel up hot enough for oil smoke (I use cheap 30 wt or ATF) & swab the oil on generously. Of course, don't use your wife's oven or do it in a confined space. Let it cool down, wipe it off, & repeat as needed. It will give a deep chocolate brown, so you might oil all your steel furniture to make things look uniform.
Roger B.

[BJH]

I use Shell Rotella diesel oil, seems to work best of the oils I’ve used. Still often get some after rust, not as much as I’ve had with other oils. I discovered this when I got some free at work. It was a opened bottle that came back from one of our depots. Presumably contaminated and was going to be dumped into the waste oil at the company garage. BJH

[john bohan]

I like atf on my browning,I get some rust afterward but it wears off easily,don't worry about it will quit rusting.

[davebozell]

I used ammonia. No rust.
[/quote]

I have used ammonia successfully on several barrels.  It not only neutralizes, but leaves no residue as well.

[hortonstn]

Biuenoser what is washing soda?

[jstedfast]

Heat the barrel up hot enough for oil smoke (I use cheap 30 wt or ATF) & swab the oil on generously. Of course, don't use your wife's oven or do it in a confined space. Let it cool down, wipe it off, & repeat as needed. It will give a deep chocolate brown, so you might oil all your steel furniture to make things look uniform.
Roger B.

It sounds like when I heated up the barrel originally, I probably didn't get it hot enough. Definitely not hot enough to smoke the oil. I'll give this a try. I've got some SAE 30 lawnmower oil that I used last time.

I was reading up on alkalinity of oils and Ballistol specifically and it turns out Ballistol has a pH over 8.0 so seems like it isn't much behind baking soda (pH 8.3) in that sense.

If the key is getting the barrel hot, though, then that's probably what I messed up on by not getting it hot enough. The heat gun probably isn't the best choice for this (as it's hard to get the whole barrel hot enough), but I'll give it another shot.

[bluenoser]

Biuenoser what is washing soda?

The technical name for washing soda is sodium carbonate.  Amongst other uses, it is a cleaning product used to clean clothing and other fabrics, and is often added when using the washing machine.  It boosts the cleaning action and we also use it with soap when cleaning the exterior of the house prior to painting.  Arm & Hammer is one of the manufacturers and it should be available in the cleaning section of any reasonably well stocked grocery store.  It is likely also available in hardware stores, but I just liberate some of my wife's supply.  It is much more pleasant to use than ammonia.

BTW, PH ranges from 0 (strongly acidic) to 14 (strong base) with 7 being neutral, so baking soda and Ballistol, having a PH of 8, would be very mildly basic.  In my opinion, one needs to use a fairly strong base to reliably neutralize the LMF product, and products such as motor oil only block access to oxygen.  The active ingredient is still on the metal just needing access to oxygen.
Just my two cents worth

[Hawg]

Heat the barrel up hot enough for oil smoke (I use cheap 30 wt or ATF) & swab the oil on generously. Of course, don't use your wife's oven or do it in a confined space. Let it cool down, wipe it off, & repeat as needed. It will give a deep chocolate brown, so you might oil all your steel furniture to make things look uniform.
Roger B.

It sounds like when I heated up the barrel originally, I probably didn't get it hot enough. Definitely not hot enough to smoke the oil. I'll give this a try. I've got some SAE 30 lawnmower oil that I used last time.

I was reading up on alkalinity of oils and Ballistol specifically and it turns out Ballistol has a pH over 8.0 so seems like it isn't much behind baking soda (pH 8.3) in that sense.

If the key is getting the barrel hot, though, then that's probably what I messed up on by not getting it hot enough. The heat gun probably isn't the best choice for this (as it's hard to get the whole barrel hot enough), but I'll give it another shot.

I didn't heat mine at all.

[jstedfast]

Biuenoser what is washing soda?

For those who have their own swimming pool in their backyards, I believe this is also known as "Soda Ash" that you can buy at a pool store (although probably marked up $$$ considerably).

[Bsharp]

I poured my baking soda into a wet rag and wiped [slathered] it on, then rinse and coat with RIG. [Rust Inhibitive Grease]

[Hawg]

Biuenoser what is washing soda?

For those who have their own swimming pool in their backyards, I believe this is also known as "Soda Ash" that you can buy at a pool store (although probably marked up $$$ considerably).

You should be able to buy washing soda at the grocery store.

[mikeyfirelock]

Keep wiping with oil soaked paper towel ( not too much pressure though) frequently to make sure oil penetrates to surface of barrel.     I’ve been very pleased with LMF browning product.   Used as directed, and on CLEAN surfaces I’ve gotten consistently good results. I also use a Bivins style browning box.  You’ll get better results with that since you will have a constant humidity level, and control. 
I used to make my own browning solutions with some of the old time gunsmiths formulae, when I was a pharmacist in some old time, small town stores, but they didn’t work as well, and were toxic ( had small kids at the time…..not good combination.)

[Gaeckle]

There's a tutorial by Wayne Estes (Stonercreek) that details how to do a simple barrel browning. It's in metal working tutorials. Pretty  straightforward

[jstedfast]

There's a tutorial by Wayne Estes (Stonercreek) that details how to do a simple barrel browning. It's in metal working tutorials. Pretty  straightforward

For anyone who happens upon this thread in the future, I'll save you some time trying to find this post and link it here:

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=70953.msg708905#msg708905

[paulitus]

I gather road kill, and boil them down, rendering a nice natural oil that works great. Very authentic, as well.

[Eric Krewson]

My first barrel stopped rusting in one day, my second went on and on and on. Being a newbie, I panicked and wondered what I did wrong and asked the good folk here. It didn't matter how much ammonia, baking soda or oil after heating the barrel too hot to touch, it kept rusting.

I was assured it would stop in time, it stopped for the most part in a month.

Here it is after three weeks of daily carding and oiling, it eventually stopped completely. All of the other parts that I soaked in a tub of ammonia overnight stopped rusting immediately.