How does cold weather (winter) effect black powder??

[Rolf]

Just came home from a black bear stalking hunt, BC, Canada. The guide told me to expect up to 300meters shooting distance, which is why I used a modern rifle. Got a nice bear 5foot + 6inches.

Planning a new trip with the same guide, December 2025 for mountain lion with dogs. Expected shooting distance max 50 meters. I'd like to use one of my flintlocks or percussion rifles.
I've been told the temperature will be between -10 Celsius and -20 Celsius.
How will this effect black powder?
Is caliber 54 large enough for mountain lion?

Best regards
Rolf

[alacran]

Doesn't take much to kill a mountain lion, especially one that is treed.

[smylee grouch]

At the range you would be shooting and the load you use you are OK for Mt. Lion or another bear and several other critters. 

[flinter49]

I believe cold weather makes little difference, if any at all, on black powder. No scientific data to back that up just 50 years experience.

[Hungry Horse]

 The real problem is your patch lube at these temperatures. Almost everything turns to cement at low temperature. An old friend came within an ace of blowing up a tradegun I had helped him build in Idaho because of cold. You may also find when wearing heavy gloves, or mitten, it almost impossible to load safely, or shoot safely.

Hungry Horse

[Habu]

A .54 would be fine for mountain lion. 

Back when I got my first chronograph I wondered a bit about this, so I did some tests.  From what I saw, with a load that gave me amuzzle velocity of ~550 mps, with loads developed at ~25 degrees C, my velocity dropped about 16 mps at about -20 C.  Changes in point of impact at 50 meters weren't enough for me to notice when shooting offhand, but a better shooter might.  From a bench, group center dropped about 1-1.5cm at the same range. (Had to convert the numbers in my notes to metric, sorry for the approximations.)

As Hungry Horse pointed out, lube is probably a greater concern.  My tests were done using neatsfoot oil as a patch lube.  Using neatsfoot oil, I've hunted in temps down below -30C without patch lube-related problems. 

[Daryl]

Habu has it. Not enough difference to make a difference. The only problems we've had with cold weather shooting, was the odd spring breakage at -30C or so. We don't shoot in those temps any more. Neetsfoot Oil works just fine. Practise with it before the hunt.

[Tenmile]

My club (Texas) used to shoot a postal match with a club in some cold place up north, don’t remember where. We submitted our scores and attached a note explaining that the low scores were due to it raining during the match. They returned a photo of their whole firing line knee deep in snow and wearing Bermuda shorts.
Lynn

[Jeff Murray]

A thought for keeping your hands warm.  I have a pair of wool "fingerless" gloves that have a mitten flap to cover your fingers when you don't need the dexterity.  When you load or shoot, the mitten cover folds back to the back of your hand and sticks to a velcro type tab.  You can load or shoot and then replace the mitten cover to keep your fingers functional.  Frozen fingers don't work well, especially when attached to an antique body.

[Daryl]

Started using those mitten/gloves since 1980's when it gets cold. Last 5 years or so, we haven't shot the trail if over -5 (about 24F) & at those mild temps, no gloves are needed.

[Jakob]

Biggest issue with sub-zero (Celsius) temperatures is the patch lube. Wet patches will freeze, or even if you keep them warm, they'll freeze as you try to load and they come in contact with the cold barrel. Ask me how I know!.
Mink oil will work. It's a bit :*%#!!& for target shooting, as I find it fouls up a lot more, but for hunting, it should be absolutely fine.
-10C is my absolutely limit for deer hunting, but it'll be different if you're stalking/moving. Still, anything under -20C will be miserable, unless it's sunny.
Also get one of these:
https://www.cabelas.ca/product/112462/cabelas-mens-windstopper-handwarmer

[alacran]

That is only - 4 here. Not that bad unless it is windy.

[Rolf]

Thank you all for your advice. I've found a supplier in Norway with neats foot oil and will try it out this winter.

Best regards
Rolf

[recurve]

lock lube and patch lube  might  freeze , might try a dry lube

[Daryl]

Neetsfoot and Tracks Mink Oil oil worked for me for the patched first shot. After that shot on moose, I loaded with a  paper ctg. After practicing, I found I could load, cap and fire an aimed shot in 8 seconds after the first shot. Since the rifle was a 14 bore, the second shot was not needed.

[Bob Roller]

Doesn't take much to kill a mountain lion, especially one that is treed.

The reason to kill it IS???
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Populations need to be controlled, if you want ungulates in the area for hunting. If overpopulated, they come to the outskirts of towns,
just like the coyotes in Hollywood. We're even seeing coyotes in town here, along with the bears.

[Dphariss]

Doesn't take much to kill a mountain lion, especially one that is treed.

The reason to kill it IS???
Bob Roller

All game is managed. Or better be. Right now Gbears are not managed in the lower 48 and the PETA types are whining about delisting. Lying of course.  But they have reached the point of coming to gunshots so hunters end up shooting them in self-defense after killing a deer or Elk. Every meat eater larger than a Fox has a record of killing people on the North American continent. Not sure about the Lynx but they are big enough to kill small humans Alaska Natives probably know. Then there are the Bison that gore people who harass them in National Parks. When you get away from the streets and sidewalks in Montana and a great many other places you enter the food chain.

[Dphariss]

So far as I know cold has no significant effect on BP. However, given that all firearms are “heat engines” the cold barrel will slightly reduce velocity do to heat loss to the cold barrel, or so I have read. In any case its not enough to cause any issues. It would not occur to me to consider it. In the context of hunting even “gray” powders that are considered heat sensitive for target work will not cause noticeable issues.

[Sandro_ventania]

Look... frankly speaking... below zero degrees Celsius, the only thing I crave is a very hot cup of tea, while I read this forum or watch a good movie... lol!

[EC121]

For the first shot with a clean barrel you wouldn’t necessarily need a lubed patch as long as the patch fills the rifling. Follow-up shots would need a lube.

[Bill Raby]

How does cold weather (winter) effect black powder??

It makes it stay in the cabinet until it gets warmer outside.

[Bob Gerard]

An interesting thing, indeed;
Cold weather makes Black Powder cold.
Conversely, warm weather makes Black Powder warm.

Science just amazes me.

Really, it does.

[ScottC60]

I use a bullet block for hunting with my .54 percussion, around my neck, inside of my coat to keep the patches warm during our December ML season.  Charges are carried in homemade metal brass tubes w/ corks.   And we always drop a dry patch on top of the powder before ramming down the patched ball, so no concern of the patch lube getting into the powder.  They we tie a small triangle of scrap suede leather to our trigger guards on a cord that we place over the capped nipple so we can carry the hammer down upon it all.  With the cord on the trigger guard, you can easily flick the leather off the cap when the hammer is cocked with the trigger finger.

[Darkhorse]

Not a scientific test I know, but.... When choosing a lube for hunting I always place a lubed patch in the freezer for a few days then check it to see if it's frozen.
This works fine for my area and climate but I know some of us deal with much lower temps. Perhaps sandwiching the patch between chunks of dry ice would be a  better test?