Need advice - unhappy with how browning my barrel turned out

[jstedfast]

There were a few areas of my barrel that I was unhappy with as they weren't as dark as the rest of the barrel (which, for the most part, came out fairly nice).

I'm not sure why the browning solution didn't seem to affect these areas originally (perhaps some sort of waxy residue? or maybe I "rubbed" it which Laurel Mountain Forge's directions say not to do).

In any case, after 2 weeks of fighting with wiping down the barrel with oil every day and having a slight bit of rust come off on the rag each time, I decided what the heck, might as well try fixing these few areas by re-applying some of the browning solution.

Well, I should have re-read the directions because they state that if I apply too much solution, it could remove whatever brown was there before... and that's exactly what happened, so by "fixing" things, I made them worse  :'(

It seems that I continually learn this lesson, but because I'm a perfectionist, I keep getting bitten.

Here's a few photos of the current results:





How should I proceed with fixing this?

Do I need to steel wool all of the brown off the barrel and start over?

Obviously, I'll be using a rag with some mineral spirits to make sure if the original issue was a waxy residue that I get that off first. Should have done that before, but oh well. Lesson learned?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In order to get a perfectly even brown, or blue, as is your case, you cannot simply steel wool the colour away and re-apply.  You'll end up with something likely much worse than you now have, mostly because you have applied a whole truck load of oil and waxes.
So, your best approach is going to be to degrease it, and to do that, I'd use Comet household cleaner on a ScotchBrite pad with lots of water in your laundry sink.  Dry the barrel after this, and then re-drawfile it.  You may only need to use abrasive cloth in the 180 grit to 220 grit range, to get down to bright steel over the whole barrel.  Don't try to brown the barrel with the breech plug in...you'll always have an area where the plug and barrel join that cannot brown properly.  Plg the vent with a round toothpick or the like, and shave it off flush with the outside of the barrel.
Now, once again, de-grease the barrel - again I suggest Comet, because that's what I use and it gets the barrel clean.  When you rince, water should not bead at all on the steel...it should wet the barrel completely without beading.
Dry the barrel with paper towels, and carry it to your bench where you have your V block supports already set up to receive it.  Never touch the barrel with bare fingers from this point on until the barrel is browned.
Apply the solution sparingly in an even coat with one swipe...never back up and go again.
Allow the solution to fester for 24 hours if you are not using a damp box.  With a damp box you can re-apply every 2 1/2 to 3hours.  You can card between coats to remove the loose scale...I use a roll of heavy canvas tied tightly in the middle, and use the end of the roll to rub down the barrel.  Re-apply the solution another 4 - 6 applications, carding between.
To blue, I use a stainless steel tank with a lid that I had welded up specifically for the job.  Pour in enough DISTILLED WATER enough to cover the barrel.  Bring it to a boil, and lower the barrel into the water with steel wire...don't forget to do the breech plug too.  In 15 - 20 minutes, the brown will have turned to blue/black.  Remove the barrel from the tank and let it cool.  Using clean cotton gloves or paper towel;s, place the barrel back into it's V Blocks and card heavily with the canvas roll, or with a soft wire wheel (from Brownell's) made specifically for the work.  You should have an even blue/black barrel with a polished surface.
Good luck, and down give up.

[rich pierce]

Great instructions above. In some situations like high humidity if I let a barrel go overnight I get a coarse result. Diluting a small bit of the browning solution 1:1 with distilled water seems to give a finer grained result, when I want that. As I get near completion I also get after it with a very fine wire wheel.

[Bsharp]

You mentioned steel wool, most have oils in them.

[bluenoser]

Degreased steel wool or oil-free steel wool as sold by Lee Valley.

[jstedfast]

In order to get a perfectly even brown, or blue, as is your case, you cannot simply steel wool the colour away and re-apply.  You'll end up with something likely much worse than you now have, mostly because you have applied a whole truck load of oil and waxes.
So, your best approach is going to be to degrease it, and to do that, I'd use Comet household cleaner on a ScotchBrite pad with lots of water in your laundry sink.  Dry the barrel after this, and then re-drawfile it.  You may only need to use abrasive cloth in the 180 grit to 220 grit range, to get down to bright steel over the whole barrel.  Don't try to brown the barrel with the breech plug in...you'll always have an area where the plug and barrel join that cannot brown properly.  Plg the vent with a round toothpick or the like, and shave it off flush with the outside of the barrel.
Now, once again, de-grease the barrel - again I suggest Comet, because that's what I use and it gets the barrel clean.  When you rince, water should not bead at all on the steel...it should wet the barrel completely without beading.
Dry the barrel with paper towels, and carry it to your bench where you have your V block supports already set up to receive it.  Never touch the barrel with bare fingers from this point on until the barrel is browned.
Apply the solution sparingly in an even coat with one swipe...never back up and go again.
Allow the solution to fester for 24 hours if you are not using a damp box.  With a damp box you can re-apply every 2 1/2 to 3hours.  You can card between coats to remove the loose scale...I use a roll of heavy canvas tied tightly in the middle, and use the end of the roll to rub down the barrel.  Re-apply the solution another 4 - 6 applications, carding between.
To blue, I use a stainless steel tank with a lid that I had welded up specifically for the job.  Pour in enough DISTILLED WATER enough to cover the barrel.  Bring it to a boil, and lower the barrel into the water with steel wire...don't forget to do the breech plug too.  In 15 - 20 minutes, the brown will have turned to blue/black.  Remove the barrel from the tank and let it cool.  Using clean cotton gloves or paper towel;s, place the barrel back into it's V Blocks and card heavily with the canvas roll, or with a soft wire wheel (from Brownell's) made specifically for the work.  You should have an even blue/black barrel with a polished surface.
Good luck, and down give up.

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a detailed response!

[taterbug]

yes, de-grease, de-grease, de-grease.  and doing it a 4th time will not hurt.  most barrels are shipped or stored with some sort of anti-rust coating on them.  Your browning solution may be trying to 'rust', through the anti-rust coating. 

De-greasing and then final sanding or filing with rubber gloves on would be extra insurance.  just the oils from your hands and fingers can sometimes leave bright spots like you see. 

And the caution about steel wools that contain oils are valid too. 

[bpd303]

Don't know if this will "fix" the problem but I have used Birchwood Casey Plumb Brown to blend in areas on old original guns where the browning was worn or had  been damaged. I always use acetone to degrease then and never use steel wool.

[Daryl]

I have also used comet and hot water for degreasing barrels prior to browning.
After they are degreaser, NO water beads on them. If the water beads  there is oil or perhaps wax on the barrel.

[jstedfast]

Figured I'd give a status update and some things I've learned in the process of using "Barkeeper's Friend" (instead of Comet since that's what I have).

- Water still beaded up on the barrel, so Comet may have extra ingredients that degrease whereas Barkeeper's Friend does not (or maybe I just didn't get it good enough).
- The brown scrubbed off much more easily on the faces of the barrel that I had previous drawfiled and sanded (top 5 faces) and was not nearly as easy to remove from the bottom 3 faces that I had not drawfiled (since they'd be hidden in the stock anyway).
- Ended up having to drawfile a fair bit of the old brown off anyway

The next step I'll be working on is sanding with 220 and maybe 320 grit sandpapers. Once I complete that, I'll be looking to degrease and this time around, I'm going to wait for a nice and humid day to start applying the LMF Barrel Brown solution.



D'oh, just found some Comet ("With BLEACH!") buried under the sink where I didn't see it. I'm not super familiar with Comet, so I have to ask - is the "With BLEACH!" version the standard (and just some added marketing hype)? Or is this there a standard version of Comet that doesn't contain bleach? I'll have to do some Google searching, I guess.

[jstedfast]

D'oh, just found some Comet ("With BLEACH!") buried under the sink where I didn't see it. I'm not super familiar with Comet, so I have to ask - is the "With BLEACH!" version the standard (and just some added marketing hype)? Or is this there a standard version of Comet that doesn't contain bleach? I'll have to do some Google searching, I guess.

Oh, wow, okay, so I had no idea there were liquid spray versions of Comet. I thought Comet was strictly the gritty powder. That said, looks like the "With BLEACH!" version is the only version (of the powder, at least).

[Daryl]

I wasn't aware of a liquid comet.

[Steeltrap]

I can’t recall how I degreased my last browning project….but Dawn dishwashing comes to mind.

[Karl Kunkel]

I think it was Don Getz who recommended using Fantastic spray cleaner and Scotchbrite, followed by hot water rinse, for barrel degreasing. Once the browning is finished he then recommended scrubbing the barrel with Lava soap, followed by a rinse with really hot water, dry and apply a heavy coat of oil, rubbed in.  Once cooled wipe off excess oil.

[Dphariss]

You mentioned steel wool, most have oils in them.

All do SFAIK. Thats why I degrease it with acetone or similar.
 I degrease the barrel the same way or denatured alcohol (if its been previously finished I take it back to white as Taylor describes. Plug the barrel with a short piece of dowel tapered to fit in the bore, whack it a time or 2. I always remove wood plugs with the barrel hot so that as it cools it does not suck in any moisture from the wood. If it blows bubbles as the barrel heats it can suck in water IMO.
I use Plumb Brown for browning. Once you figure it out the new formula it works well.
I cold rust for rust blue. Which I really like and do for most rifles that I build from a blank.

[mikeyfirelock]

Do a search here for “browning box” and you will find a number of replies that may help you.  I suspect that the reason you are not getting the results that you should’ve is the humidity is not in a range to produce a good brown.  I’ve gotten consistent results using mine,   Just as an experiment, try putting your parts in a large  enclosed box ( cardboard would work just fine or maybe even a large loose plastic bag…doesn’t have to be airtight at all) after you apply your browning solution…. with a pan of water or maybe a wet rag in the bottom for a few days and see if that improves the results. 

[Bsharp]

Here is a simple one that I saved.

[jstedfast]

It's been a really humid weekend (unlike last time when I tried to brown) so I started attempting to brown my barrel again using Laurel Mountain Forge's "Barrel Brown". It's been about 4 hours and this is what the barrel looks like:



Does this look ready for the second application of the Barrel Brown solution? Or should I continue to wait a bit longer? I think it's as brown or browner now than it was last time after 24 hours.

[sdilts]

That looks good. I would go ahead and put the second coat on.

[mikeyfirelock]

You are on the right path now.  Don’t get over zealous with your carding between coats……just get the loose stuff off..…keep applying your solution completely but not overgenerously……you need to just basically dampen your surface each application, not “wet” it.
Hang in there……..you are on the right track.

[Daryl]

Doing well. Follow Mickey's advice.

[jstedfast]

Thanks for all of the help, guys! Special thanks to D. Taylor Sapergia for the advice on restarting the whole process.

I ended up applying a second coat yesterday about 5 hours after applying the first coat and then waited another 5 hours (around 10pm last night) before carding with some old blue jeans and applying a third coat.

This morning I carded again and neutralized the solution with a ton of baking soda dissolved in hot water, rinsed it off, dried it using a heat gun and then heated up fairly hot in sections to apply motor oil where it now sits for the next 24 hours.

Possibly should have gone with a fourth coat, but I'm more than happy with the results of 3 coats which looks to have turned out much more consistent than my first try at browning this barrel.







Pretty excited to see how the rifle looks completed!

[mikeyfirelock]

Ya’ dun good!   

[Craig Wilcox]

Looks outstanding!

I use a very fine wire wheel mounted in my drill press; seems to always give a fine finish.