Author Topic: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs  (Read 2322 times)

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« on: September 22, 2024, 02:07:08 AM »
Hi,
I was asked late last year to make a 1730s English turn-off pistol for the Fort Dobbs museum from TRS parts.  I built up the mechanism early last spring but then had to put it aside for several months due to other more pressing work.  I got back to it early this month and am nearing completion.  These are often called "Queen Anne" pistols but their production and popularity began well before Anne in the 17th century and lasted well after her into the 19th century and even the percussion era. Perhaps they reached their technical and artistic zenith during her reign.  They are breech loading side lock pistols, which can also be muzzle loaded when required, though with a smaller ball wrapped in a patch.  They are very powerful given the powder charge and quite accurate.  The TRS barrels are rifled, which I don't understand.  The original pistol by John Harman that they copied was smooth bored.  Indeed, probably all of these pistols made in England after 1680 were smooth bored.  Anyway, my mission was to make a working pistol for the fort as close to a pair in the museum owned by the fort builder and commander during the 1750s, Hugh Waddell.  His pistols were made by Joseph Clarkson Sr during the 1730s or 1740s. They are classic examples of turn off pistols made at the time by a very prolific and fine London gun maker.  Unfortunately, the TRS parts cannot be completely altered to copy Waddell's pistols.  So I had to make some compromises and adhere as closely as I could to Clarkson's work.  So here are the components, fitted and mostly finished.
     


These are very fiddly guns to make and require a high level of precision not only in fitting the tumbler, bridle, sear/trigger and such but also all of the springs.  They have to fit just right.  I used the TRS cast feather spring, which worked out really well but I forged the sear and mainsprings. I modified everything because the original precision of fitting gets lost in the casting process. The pistol has a sliding safety in which you push the trigger guard forward and that simultaneously locks the tumbler, mainspring, and trigger.  Well, you have to make sure all that happens "simultaneously".  It is a challenge and I benefitted from having built one before. Here is the stock with the sterling silver mounts.

It just has the first sealing coat of finish.  Much more to come. The silver butt cap and wrist plate are nice copies of Waddell's pistols.  The side plate is not.  It is from the same period but different design and it was a challenge to inlet because it curves vertically and horizontally.  The yellow tone to the butt cap is because I pickle the silver in acid after annealing, which removes surface scale. The acid tends to bring out the copper in the silver alloy.








You can see the complex inletting for the action.  It is not trivial.  The TRS stock has some of that done but I rejected the stock blank because it was dodgy black walnut and had a very poor grain direction.  Instead, I used a piece of beautiful red brown English walnut that I saved for decades. It has the perfect grain and color.  The stock has the first sealing coat of Sutherland -Welles tung oil wiping varnish thinned with turpentine and tinted with alkanet root. Finally, I shortened the barrel and profiled it to more closely match the Waddell pistols.   I cut them back and turned a new profile.  I don't have a metal lathe.  I did this with a wood lathe and files.





Finally, the screw barrel section has a lug used with a ring shaped barrel wrench to remove it if powder fouling jams the screw breech.  That lug was historically either mortised into the barrel and then brazed or dovetailed and either brazed or soldered.  I opted to dovetail the lug and silver solder it.   The lug base conforms to the round barrel and I need to do a bit more blending but it will be very strong.



dave
« Last Edit: September 22, 2024, 02:11:02 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline ed lundquist

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2024, 02:29:12 AM »
Wow!  Anxious to see more, thanks.

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4340
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2024, 05:40:30 PM »
That's going to be nice!
I enjoy watching your builds, and your attention to precision and workmanship.
John
John Robbins

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3424
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2024, 03:55:44 PM »
Very nice work, Dave!

I look forward to the rest of the story, knowing full well it will once again be best work!
These are very interesting pistols, and as you say, very powerful.
My old William Bailes from his early days in Russell Street, has the same butt cap and a very similar sideplate to the one you are using.

Looking forward to more, Dave!

R.

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1327
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2024, 03:21:41 AM »
Very cool. I had been thinking about this pistol, as you mentioned a while ago that you were building it.
I will certainly look for it during one ov my visits to Fort Dobbs.
I am finally getting to see a David Person original 😀

Ps: the grotesque mask butt cap looks very similar to one I got from MBS. I suspect they were a common style back then.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2024, 03:26:34 AM by Bob Gerard »

Offline runastav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1148
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2024, 05:48:09 PM »
Very nice Dave, lucky you folks who have TRS parts to bay ::)
Runar

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2024, 01:28:03 AM »
Hi,
Thanks for looking and commenting.  Got most of the engraving done.  It is not ideal because I cannot get rid of all the cast in engraving.  It is too deep and too much metal would have to be removed.  So I have to reduce it as much as I can then use it as a guide for new engraving.  It works out Ok but often there are several sections that just compromise the precision of any new engraving. I could weld over it but I would be welding over many spots. Anyway, on this pistol, I just worked with what I had and modified it as far as I could go to make it a Joseph Clarkson gun rather that the John Harman gun copied, including the engraving, by TRS.  Lots of nick and dots but some are rough because of the cast in lines.  I wiped out "John Harman" and replaced it with "Clarkson" and I also removed Harman's stamp and the engraved a diamond and stamped "I C" within it. The original "London" engraving is cramped at the last letters to fit the space.  I could not wipe it out entirely so I lived with the unequal spacing as per the original gun.  It all came out well but I wish TRS offered parts sets with no cast in engraving.  It usually does not look right.

 








dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1327
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2024, 01:59:31 PM »
It looks amazing already.
(What caliber is it by the way?)

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3424
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2024, 04:41:43 PM »
Very beautiful work there Dave.
Hats off to you!

I believe one of Keith Neil's favourite pairs were Clarkson, given to him by his wife as a wedding present.

(not checked so could be wrong!)

Again,
Very attractive work!

Offline Justin Urbantas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2024, 10:55:49 PM »
I'd personally love to see a video of it being loaded and fired when you're finished. 

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2024, 01:16:42 AM »
Thanks for looking everyone,

Bob, it is 50 caliber and rifled.  I wish it was not rifled and more like 56 caliber. I suppose I could send the barrel out to someone like Bob Hoyt to get it reamed but the museum has not asked that I do that. I finished all the engraving including engraving "DP  BRNTREE HILL" on the side of the handle strap. The trigger guard was the last item to engrave.



Then I hardened and temper blued all of the external screw heads that likely will see wear and polished the action.





I thought I'd show the internal mechanism.  The first 2 photos show the inside without the tumbler, bridle, and main spring.  It shows the forged "U" shaped sear spring, the sliding lug for the trigger guard safety, and the safety spring.  That lug has a raised ridge that blocks the mainspring at half cock when the trigger guard is pushed forward.
 





Now I add the tumbler, bridle, flint cock, and mainspring.  At half cock, you can see how the safety lug blocks the hook of the main spring. Then when slid back, allows the pistol to be cocked.






The downward view shows how precise everything must fit.



These pistols are marvelous examples of 17th and 18th century design and workmanship.  They are a challenge for us today.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19424
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2024, 04:04:12 AM »
Looking great!
Andover, Vermont

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2024, 01:09:46 AM »
Hi,
Done.  I just have to make the barrel wrench.  I am pretty happy with it.  It is the second turn-off pistol I've built from TRS castings and that first experience really helped, primarily with constructing the lock mechanism.  The barrel is 50 caliber and rifled.  I did almost all the engraving incorporating some of the residual cast in engraving but mostly cutting everything again.  Clarkson usually engraved his name on the top of the breech but the cast in design and "LONDON" was too deep to completely remove.  So I engraved Clarkson's name under the breech where he usually engraved "LONDON".  I wiped out the old John Harman name and his barrel stamp and replaced it with Clarkson and his diamond stamp.  I polished and then tarnished all the steel. I chiseled and engraved all of the sterling silver mounts.  They all needed defining and refining.  So many of these modern made silver mounts look too rounded, over polished, and ill defined compared with the originals.  The stock is beautiful English or black walnut that I have saved for decades.  I actually logged the standing dead tree in 1979. It is so wonderfully colored and dense that I suspect it is English walnut but I am not sure. It was pure pleasure to work and I stained it with alkanet root after whiskering it using yellow aniline dye dissolved in water. The finish is Sutherland-Welles tung oil wiping varnish, which mixes polymerized tung oil with polyurethane varnish. It is a wonderful mix.   So here it is.  Enjoy.

 


























I test fired it today at distances from 10 to 25 yards.  I shot at an 8" gong using 0.495 balls and 15 gr of 3F powder (the max the chamber can hold).  I fired 15 rounds without a misfire and the flint looks like new at the end.  Ignition was surprisingly fast despite a fairly long vent hole.  The first 2 shots at 10 yards completely missed the gong. That is when I realized you have to aim it really low. I use the end of the tang screw as a rear guide and I lift the barrel to just where I can see the top of the cannon muzzle over that rounded end of the tang screw.  With that sight picture, I have to aim over 12" below my intended point of impact.  There may be other sight pictures that work better but using the one I adopted, I hit the gong with every shot back to 25 yards. With practice, I could become deadly with this pistol up to 30 yards.  With 15 grains of 3F it has all the power you would ever need.  At 25 yards, it will knock an 8" steel gong right off its chain.

dave 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2024, 01:21:20 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline 2 shots

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 198
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2024, 02:01:03 AM »
 a work of art as always. very cool little piece. thanks for sharing.

Offline Levy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2024, 06:46:41 PM »
Fine work Smartdog.  Not to hijack your thread, but I  would like to mention that a I. Clarkson pistol was recovered from the 1733 Plate Fleet Wreck of the San Jose.  It had IC in a diamond on the barrel and also had CHA CHURCHILL engraved on the top of the barrel.  James Levy 
James Levy

Offline Pukka Bundook

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3424
!
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2024, 05:36:39 PM »
Wonderful and beautiful work, Dave!

I must say that the engraving on the tang looks so Exactly right, I would have taken it for original.
Perfect work Dave!

Offline Keith Zimmerman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 711
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2024, 01:06:31 AM »
Very nice.

I had a Queen Anne turn off pistol by Steve Lodding.  60 cal smoothbore.  Gun was perfectly fine.  But I couldnt hit anything with it.  Somebody finally talked me out of it.

Online davec2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2930
    • The Lucky Bag
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2024, 01:13:01 AM »
David,

Beautiful, beautiful pistol !!!!  And a tribute to your craftsmanship... ;)  A question about the proof & view marks....were they cast in place, or did you stamp them in ?

Best,

David C
"No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into a jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... a man in a jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company."
Dr. Samuel Johnson, 1780

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2024, 01:24:37 AM »
Hi,
Thanks everyone for your comments and interest. 

Dave Crisalli, the proof marks were cast in but I mostly wiped out the cast in stamp for John Harman and cut a deep diamond with gravers.  I wiped out the previous mark just enough to remove any stamping that would interfere with the Clarkson mark. That way I did not lower the level of the surface too much where it might show after creating the new mark. Then I used a tiny flat die sinker's chisel to remove previous stamp roughness from the bottom of the diamond.  Then I stamped the interior with I and C for Joseph Clarkson.  That was his mark. This kind of stuff takes a whole lot of finessing to avoid removing too much metal.  I hate cast in engraving and stamps.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Rmjchas

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2024, 04:49:00 PM »
Beautiful!   I wish I had your level of talent and skill.

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2024, 12:57:14 AM »
Hi Folks,
Thank you for looking and I appreciate the comments.  This was a fun project just like the previous turn-off pistol I made. I finished making the barrel wrench.  I welded the ring to steel rod and then finished it off.  I've only seen a couple original barrel wrenches.  I suspect they easily get lost over time.  None I've seen were very ornate,  Just a simple utilitarian tool.  I tried to give mine a air of competence and craftsmanship. I case hardened the wrench and tempered it to a brilliant blue. I then formed a lanyard ring from brazing rod, installed it on the end of the wrench, and then soldered the joint.  It works very well but I found it may not be needed.  It is easy to screw and unscrew the barrel with your hand during firing. I will let the finish cure this week, then apply a little Renaissance wax and polish it.  Then build a box and ship it to North Carolina.

dave





« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 01:01:08 AM by smart dog »
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Daryl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15731
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2024, 02:19:16 AM »
Now THAT is a cool looking pistol! ;D
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Jakob

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2024, 07:44:27 AM »
How are these loaded/operated?

Offline flatsguide

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2024, 12:53:31 PM »
That was a major undertaking and it turned out fabulous. Can’t imagine inletting that piece of machinery. Well done!
Richard

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6989
Re: Turn-off pistol for Fort Dobbs
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2024, 02:34:37 PM »
Hi,
Thanks Richard! 

Jakob,
The barrel unscrews and powder and ball are placed in the breech, then the barrel screwed back on for firing.  If you look through the entire thread I show photos of the breech.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."