Kibler .54 Woodsrunner or .45 SMR?

[McJames]

Hi all! I’m new to the forum, but I’ve been lurking awhile. I’m really on the fence between a woodsrunner in .54 or an SMR in .45

I like the looks and the time period for the SMR, but I like the caliber and ease of assembly for the woodsrunner. It will be used for general plinking, but most importantly as a deer rifle. I live in Pennsylvania, where we have a maximum caliber for small game, so it will not be used for that.

Which of these rifles balances better? Which shoots better off-hand/is more pointable? I like the idea of a curved buttplate. I’ve only shouldered one flintlock, but it feels natural to shoulder it above the bicep rather than up on the shoulder, so I like the idea of the curved buttplate “locking locking it in. Does the woodsrunner feel natural to shoulder in that manner? Is either lock faster/more reliable? Were any backwoods riflemakers from, say, 1870-1920 making rifles that were styled more like 18th century pieces, or did they all have the more modern lines like the SMR?

I have a woodsrunner on order, but I’m really torn about it. As I said, I’m not reenacting or anything, and it’ll mostly be a tool, and I’m afraid I’ll regret the limited range, smaller blood trail and decreased power of the .45 if I switch my order to the SMR.

Thanks in advance for all of your input. I’m just driving myself nuts, as this will likely be the only longrifle I can afford for quite awhile.

[Tommy Bruce]

buy em both!

[alacran]

If I had to have only one rifle and deer is my primary prey. I would always choose the .54 over a .45.

[Steeltrap]

I live in Pa as well and my rifles are usually picked with the idea they will be used in hunting of some sort.

For years I've used a 50 cal flintlock and it's killed 'em just fine. A few years back I built a Leman in .54 caliber and it's now my go to deer flintlock. Bigger hole.....faster drop of the animal.

JMHO.

BTW, my wife's late uncle used nothing but a .45 cal for flintlock for years. Every deer he shot died....some right there...some tracking was involved. But he\we recovered all of 'em.

I'm not saying you wont' have to track 'em using a 54 cal vs a 45 cal, I'm just saying my preference is my .54 cal vs my 50 cal.

Either way you go you won't be wrong and whatever you choose you will have a fine rifle that will outlast you.

[UtahCraig]

I hunt Pennsylvania flintlock... have done so since 1976, and used a 50 caliber for much of that time.  Built a Woodsrunner last year in 54 and what a rifle!!  Its a deer killer that balances well.  I can't comment on the SMR, but certainly recommend the Woodsrunner.

[wolf]

James over the years i have killed many SC deer with a lot of calibers. it boils down to this, shot placement every time! the last two deer i killed last year with a flintlock i used a 45 Kibler SMR. a 150lb 8 point shot at 85yds, he took 2 or 3 jumps and fell dead. there was blood all over the ground where he was hit. the second that year was a 6 point at 45 yds. he dropped stone dead! i have shot a few with a 54 that ran 50 or 60yds in the lungs with no blood trail at all. as far as pointing and shooting the WR and SMR are both good.

[Justin Urbantas]

I'm a big fan of the .45. I have won many matches and dropped 5 deer with it. Saves powder and lead. Guys like to tease me when I'm only shooting 35 grains in a shoot, but I'm usually standing in the winner's circle.

[B.Habermehl]

My vote is with the .54. Better blood trails. .45 is a poor choice for deer hunting in my opinion. Poor to no blood trails. I’ve killed deer with .45 cal. I’ve also lost deer due to non existent blood trails. I’ve hunted exclusively with a .58 cal flint rifle for the last 15-20 years and haven’t needed to track a deer since. That rifle has killed more deer than my entire armory. BJH

[Craig Wilcox]

You could get a second barrel from Kibler, believe they are the same externally.

[Daniel Coats]

Don't second guess yourself too much. Stick with what you have on order the reasons likely haven't changed much.

[Blacksmoke]

Think BIG because you can always load it down for smaller game!  For me .58 or .60 is the ultimate!!  H.T.

[Mick C]

They are both super handsome rifles but may I address the curving buttplate comment in you OP?  For me personally, I have found the flatter buttplates to be easier to shoot and easier on my shoulder. I have several of both and after a day of shooting, my shoulder is much more bruised with the curving buttstocks than flat. So-much-so that I tend to aovid my mountain rifles these days (I flat out got rid of my Lyman Plains Rifle I use to have).  Now it may very well be the way I'm holding them but that is my experience.   

[Daryl]

If Kibler made one in .69, I'd likely have it. A better all-round  hunting caliber doesn't exist  imho. Yeah, OK, a .66 would also do.

[stubshaft]

James, the Woodsrunner with its swamped barrel will shoot just fine offhand.  For hunting I do agree with the bigger hole theory and have a Kibler Colonial in 58 just because.  That does not diminish the basic fact that you have to hit the animal in its vitals to kill it. However, the SMR's curved butt is designed to be shot more off of the upper arm then the pocket of the shoulder.  It is slimmer, lighter and I find it much easier to drag it around the bush while hunting.  Truth be told I find it a little easier to shoot offhand with it because of the lighter weight and to ME better balance. That being aid, I find myself taking the SMR out more often that the Colonial to the mountains.

As far as lethality goes, just remember that "Old Betsy" (Davy Crocketts rifle) was a .40!

I love them both and am thinking hard on adding one of Jims Fowlers to my collection. 

[McJames]

Thank you all for your opinions! I went to Fort Chambers today and was able to handle both a Woodsrunner and colonial in .54

I really do prefer the aesthetics of a barrel longer than the woodsrunner, but it felt great to the shoulder and very light. The colonial in .54 definitely felt a bit muzzle heavy, and was hard to keep steady after holding it up for a moment. They didn’t have an SMR in the store.

As of now, I’m thinking I’ll probably stay with the woodsrunner, and if I end up really liking black powder shooting/hunting, maybe I’ll build an SMR for small game some day down the road.

[HSmithTX]

54 without a second thought for a deer gun.  Only thing wrong with a 54 is it isn't a 58-69 cal, bigger is better when using a round ball.  And whatever it is drive it fast. 

[McJames]

I thought about the .58 colonial, but I like the idea of the flatter shooting .54

[HSmithTX]

Given similar velocities at the muzzle the larger ball will be flatter shooting.  More weight with the larger ball so slightly better conservation of energy given the awful aerodynamics of a round ball. A 54 and a 58 can shoot similar velocity with no issue and relatively not much increase in recoil. Recoil is the only penalty of shooting a larger bore. 

[brokenhand]

I bought a SMR in .40 as my first Kibler rifle. I just love that rifle and have really enjoyed shooting it. This past spring I bought a Woodsrunner in a .54. I have only shot my Woodsrunner twice at the range so far, but it was just dead nuts from the first round out of it. The biggest cal. muzzleloader I had ever owned up to this point was a .50.  I am only 5'8', and the W is a little handier for me. I love the balance of both of them, but I would have to go with the W if I was after a hunting rifle as a priority. The hole in a target is impressive after shooting a good group.  Both of the locks work better than anything I have ever had, and they are quick. Anyway, you should go with your heart, you can't make a bad choice between these two fine rifles.

[AwwNaww]

Woodie has some cast off and wider butt, so it is shot/held more conventionally. The SMR is shot off bicep. I have both and really recommend trying before buying OR doing the smart thing and getting both.

A SMR in .36 would give you the small game rifle and the SMR is just plain beautiful. Oh well, so is the Woodie.

heck buy em both, we ain't getting out of this gig alive.

[Scota4570]

I have three SMRs, one Colonial, one Woodsrunner. 

I shoot the SMRs most.  Two are 40 cal.  I  converted it to caplock. A second one is 40 flint.  The last one is an old one with the longer barrel.  The 46" barrel is cool but not my thing.  I usually shoot a 40 cal SMR at the club shoots.  I usually post the high score.

The SMR in 45 cal, I have a 45 cal barrel, balances in an amazing way.  IT is like a really nice 4 weight flyrod.  You will love it. 

Kibler uses Green Mountain barrels in calibers 45 and larger.  I think that is a plus.     

The Woodsrunner is 50 cal.  It is wonderful. It shoots great.  The balance is good. 

The Colonial is to large for me to shoot regularly.  Mine is 54 cal.  I carved and engraved it.  It is beautiful. 

You can not go wrong with any of the Kibler offerings. 

[Bob Roller]

They are both super handsome rifles but may I address the curving buttplate comment in you OP?  For me personally, I have found the flatter buttplates to be easier to shoot and easier on my shoulder. I have several of both and after a day of shooting, my shoulder is much more bruised with the curving buttstocks than flat. So-much-so that I tend to aovid my mountain rifles these days (I flat out got rid of my Lyman Plains Rifle I use to have).  Now it may very well be the way I'm holding them but that is my experience.

You will notice the elegant profile of the Alex Henry rifle posted by "Snapper".If I live another 88 years I will never understand the idea behind a crescent or deeply curved butt plate.The Brits had the right idea IMHO.These English rifles were also made without the pistol grip stock and were called stalking rifles.I prefer them because I like the good looking trigger guards used on them.
Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

That would be A no brainer for me. Bigger is better IMHO

[stan57]

...I shoot the SMRs most.  Two are 40 cal.  I  converted it to caplock...

Very interested in seeing your cap lock SMR. Please post a fews pictures.

[Steeltrap]

That would be A no brainer for me. Bigger is better IMHO

Except when it comes to bikinis.