Starting point for a 14 gauge (69 Caliber) fowler patched round ball load

[Daryl]

Sounds like great advice to me, Rich. I had no idea those adjustable reamers were that inexpensive.
A final choke of about .005" is all my 20 bore has, and it's patches from shot balls are reusable. On top of
that, it shoots imp patterns with it's imp cyl. choking. Leaving a choke of say, .002" to .003" might give the best of both worlds.
In working with ctg. shotguns with BP as well as my current flinter 20 bore, I've found black powder gives tighter patterns per
choke, than does smokeless. Of course, I've never used, nor would I every use smokeless in a muzzleloader unless I wanted it to blow up.

[rich pierce]

Sounds like great advice to me, Rich. I had no idea those adjustable reamers were that inexpensive.
A final choke of about .005" is all my 20 bore has, and it's patches from shot balls are reusable. On top of
that, it shoots imp patterns with it's imp cyl. choking. Leaving a choke of say, .002" to .003" might give the best of both worlds.
I working with ctg. shotguns with BP as well as my current flinter 20 bore, I've found black powder gives tighter patterns per
choke, than does smokeless. Of course, I've never used, nor would I every use smokeless in a muzzleloader unless I wanted it to blow up.

Daryl, I forgot where I heard of the adjustable reamer technique but I’ve reamed an few original smoothbore barrels and get that mirror finish with concentric circles depending on the light. Same dimension end to end. I know that some use brake hones but I’m not sure they are reliable to be dimensionally accurate end to end.

[Daryl]

I've used brake hones on 2 shotgun's chokes and they worked well, but only with the type of choke that has no "end choke", ie: parallel sided muzzle the length of the shot column.
I had to shorten the tubes of a 10 bore to that configuration, before working on the chokes to match the loads I wanted to use.
I got it shooting 94% right barrel and 96% left. It was dynamite on geese, before the lead shot ban.
I used the adjustable hone on an overly choked single bl., 12 to open it up to use steel shot. That worked.
I suppose I still have that adjustable 12 bore hone somewhere, or Taylor has it?

[Leatherbark]

I would use a .690 ball on top of a big dose of 2f black powder with either Tow wad over the ball or take a 1-1/2 x 3-inch piece of paper folded into a square and use one over the ball.  Nothing under the ball but powder.

Bob

[Hungry Horse]

 alright finally somebody figured it out. This gun is choked, and will shoot both shot, and an undersized round ball as long as you don’t patch the ball, or use fiber wads with shot loads. I have two guns like this, and I shoot them with wasp nest over the ball, or wasp nest over the shot. But you could use tow as well. I use what I have a lot of and there is no shortage of wasps in California.

Hungry Horse

[New Fowler]

I have talked to my local black powder gunsmith, and it will be dropped off at his place to have the choke reamed out to cylinder bore, as with the sights, it will primarily be a ball gun, and after a fair amount of research, I have come to the conclusion that a heavier shot charge has been the solution for better patterns. I have a cylinder bored TC new englander 12 gauge, and found that it throws good patterns to 40 yards, if you increase the powder charge to about 110 grains, with 140 grains of shot on top of it, or about two ounces. I will keep you guys updated on the progress of the gun, thank you all for the advice, this has been a bit of a roller coaster post. I also plan on shooting it bareball, I want the gun to be quick to reload and accurate enough. If I need precision, I have rifles. What size groups can I expect from bare ball loads. From what I have seen, 2.5-3 inches rested is to be expected at 50 yards.

[Daryl]

I would suggest that it will likely not shoot tighter than 5 or 6" at 50 yards, if that tight.
Now, one 20 bore we played with, using .595" balls and tightly patched, we were able to shoot 3" at 50 yards.
My own 20 bore will not do that with any load.
These are 25 yard groups from a bench.
The larger .69 cal. has the potential, due merely to it's size, of being more accurate with round ball.




I also shot this group at 28 yards, with the same gun. Go figure - IT happens, but is not repeatable, it seems.

[bob in the woods]

I agree with Daryl re the likely group size at 50 yards. I have used a number of smoothbores over the years, and although many folks talk about 2 to 3 in groups at 50 yards, my 20 bore is the only gun I've had that will do it ...dependably.  My 10 bore will do it at 35 yards all day long, but opens to 4 and a bit at 50.  I'm talking 5 shot groups....not 3 shot.   The 4th and 5th shot has ruined many a 2 in group !

[smylee grouch]

I think I agree with Bob in the Woods  on shooting 5 shot groups instead of 3 shot when sighting in or working up loads. Seen it several times where the 3 shots had two close and one separated by a lot. WHICH  one is the flyer? With 5 shots you have more data to make a informed choice.

[Daryl]

My 28 yard group is 5 shots. I agree it is a fluke, compared to the other 4 groups, which are relatively consistent.
I've yet to try paper ctgs. in the .20 bore, though. Bob's 20 bore does really well with them.

[Pukka Bundook]

Daryl,
I know we have talked about this before, but a true cylinder bore, well regulated, can throw a 40 % pattern at 40 yards.
40 percent of  1 1/8 ounces of No 6 or 7 shot is still a very killing pattern for birds down to partridge or pigeon size, with enough energy to still do the job.
This is the most important part, to ensure pattern and energy  fail at about the same time!

I have had old originals that consistently shot killing patterns at this range with no choke, or even a very slight flare at the muzzle ends.
Most important thing is to keep the powder charge down so as not to blow the pattern.

All the best,
Richard.

[Daryl]

That 20 bore of mine, with the IMP cyl choke, makes just over 60% at 40yards using 1 1/8oz. and 82gr. 2F GOEX, a 3 dram load.
Smashes birds well.  If having a slight choke on a 14 bore, I would likely use the same shot and powder charges, same in 12 bore.
I haven't tested it with Schutzen powder.