Starting point for a 14 gauge (69 Caliber) fowler patched round ball load

[New Fowler]

I have recently acquired a 69 caliber smooth bore fowler with rifle sights on it for a song, and I am starting to work up both shot and patched round ball loads. Should i do accuracy testing at 25 or 50 yards? 3f or 2f powder? Starting charge? I hope to be somewhere in the 90-110 grain range to bet the velocity up a bit for hunting. What can I expect in terms of accuracy? It is also my first flintlock so any pointers on that would also be appreciated.
Thank You,
New Fowler

[Daryl]

I run a .69 rifle. I would suggest a good load would be in the arena of 85gr. 2F to 120gr. 2F.  I recorded 1,225fps with 85gr. 2F.  110gr. should run about 1,350fps.(just a guess)
I would also suggest a 16 bore ball, ie: .662". That should easily load an 8 ounce denim patch.
If the crown hasn't already been smoothed:
The method with emery or wet/dry paper, twisting the wrist: Turning the barrel every 15 seconds or so.

The result:

[New Fowler]

Thank you. I have ordered in some .672 balls and .020 patches, will have to look into denim. Definitely have some polishing to do, the bore was quite rusty when I acquired it. Some scotch brite has really helped, but a drill and some steel wool are still in the guns future. What is the advantage of creating a crown like that?

[smylee grouch]

A lot of people  START with one grain of powder per caliber. In a 69 I would use 2f. I use 1&1\2 f in my 66 rifle. ( 110 yr )

[rich pierce]

Like Daryl, I use a .662 ball, denim patch, and FFG in my .690 smoothbore. 90 grains of FFG works better than less. I didn’t try more. I use it mostly for turkeys with shot more than as a round ball gun. But it will lob balls out there and hit the gongs.

[New Fowler]

Thank you, where are you buying the denim?

[rich pierce]

I go to a fabric store and dig through denim and buy 10 ounce weight.

[Daryl]

A smooth crown allows loading sung combinations without cutting the patch.
Snug combinations shoot cleanly and do not allow fouling to build up.
When you load the next one, you clean the last one. If the loading gets tougher and tougher,
your ball and patch combination are not snug enough - or, you are not using a good enough
lube - or, not enough lube.
Because you do not have grooves (rifling), the ball needs to be smaller, to allow a thick enough
patch to be used. A thicker patch, holds more lube, making loading easier.

[New Fowler]

Well, some disheartening news on this gun. While cleaning it out in preparation for a club shoot this weekend, i discovered that the bore is choked down to 69 caliber. So I think patched balls may be off the table. My question is can you still shoot a ball that has wadding on top of it, instead of a patch to seal the bore. I have seen many videos online of people shooting wadded balls with a great deal of accuracy. Hypothetically it should work, so long as the ball can pass through the choke with a decent amount of clearance. Thoughts?

[Daryl]

Are you saying the gun is a 12 bore with a full choke(which would be .69") of perhaps 13 bore (.705" choked down to .69").
You noted in your original post that it was a 14 bore, or .69. Did you make a typo and it's .68"?

[New Fowler]

I cannot tell as I have no way to measure the bore past the muzzle. It could be the case however. The seller told me it was a 69 caliber, though he bought it from the estate of another shooter. The muzzles on my calipers is 690, but about 3 inches down the bore, I can feel that the cleaning patch loosens up quite a bit. The barrel is marked GBW, and is a 41 inch, octagon to round barrel with a small 1 inch wedding band about 4 inches after the transition from octagon to round.

[New Fowler]

It also has a rear sight dovetailed into the barrel

[rich pierce]

If I wanted it to be a round ball gun I’d ream the muzzle if I couldn’t get acceptable accuracy. Otherwise you may have an outstanding turkey gun.

If the patch doesn’t fall off it doesn’t sound like much choke to me. I’d not fear shooting a round ball. After all you have to get it through that muzzle on the way down. Try different things. Patched, bare ball, wad under and wad over, and so on.

[WKevinD]

Possibly jug choked? If so you can still shoot round ball with the load Rich suggested.

Kevin

[Daryl]

Mild standard choke or jug choke, you can still shoot a patched ball as per mu suggestion.  If using a bare ball with wads/cards, the ball should be fairly close to the bore size.
Shoving a tightly patched jag down the bore will tell you if it's jug choked or standard choked. If it gets tight again after 6 or so inches, it's jugged. If loose
all the way to the breach, it's a standard choke. If it is a standard choke, just as my "fowler" barrel happens to be, a pure lead ball will obturate some upon ignition and shoot
fine at close ranges. Mine does, however mine does not shoot well at 50yards or beyond.

[New Fowler]

It is tight to start a patch and it loosens up after the first 3 inches substantially. If I can't get it to shoot how I want tomorrow, I can always take it to my local black powder Smith and have him either ream out the choke or to just cut the gun down. I'm 5'7" and a 42 inch barrel makes for a really long gun for me. May have him cut it to 36 or so inches anyways, not sure yet. Thank you all for all of the advice and wisdom, I've got a lot to try tomorrow at the range

[Daryl]

How does it feel from 3" down the tube, to the breach. Is it loose all the way or tighten up at 4 to 6"?

[New Fowler]

Loose all the way past the first 3 inches

[Daryl]

That explains it as a common choke. I was going to ream out the choke in my 20 bore, but it shoots so nicely with shot, IMP patterns, that I am going to leave it.
I have rifles to hunt big game with, so for me the smoothbore is kept for flying game, ie: clay birds at rendezvous. I still enter the smoothbore events, but as I noted,
my gun shoots poorly at 50yards and over.
chokes
B D E F & H are all similar, in that the barrel is looser down past the choke.
G is a jug choke.

[New Fowler]

I was able to get out and shoot it today, and it was a heartbreaker. Bare ball loads with a .672 ball produced 8 inch patterns at 25 yards. Patched balls wouldn't start past the choke even with thin patches and a mallet. After shooting, I took the gun to a friend with a set of ID gauges and micrometers. Best we can figure is that this is turkey choked 12 gauge, measuring .695 at the muzzle, and .725 at the breech, so the gun is a shot only gun until I decide to either sell it, or to have the choke cut out of it. Thank you to all of you who have offered words of advice to me.

[rich pierce]

The barrel alone is worth $300 to turkey hunters. Can you show us pictures?

[New Fowler]

Can anyone identify the makers signature?

[Daryl]

If you cut off the choke, it will likely shoot better with round balls than with it, however, it will shoot poorly with shot & thus, need special loading (lots of experimentation) to shoot shot well, even as close as 25 yards.
I would suggest a .672" ball is .010" too large.
A .650 would be even better than a .662. As I said, a thicker patch is preferred to a thin patch. I call anything thinner than .018" to be TOO thin.
.725" at the breech, is VERY tight for a 12 bore, as nominally, 12 bore is .729" to .730".

[New Fowler]

I don't mind a 25 yards shotgun, having watched quite a few videos on smoothbores and shot, Mike Beliveau at duelist 1954 recommended loading more shot in the smoothbore to make up for lack of choke, so loading 1.5-2 ounces of shot. My worry with patched balls is that even a .020 patch to get through a .695 choke needs a ball that is .04 smaller than the ball, so that puts me at a .655 ball to get to the bottom of the bore. But with it being .725 at the bore, I don't think I can load a patch/ball combo that will both go through the choke, and obturate at the back of the bore to prevent blow by. I guess my question now is do I sell or modify it. I really want a gun that shoots roundballs primarily, with shot as an option for small game, not vice versa.

[rich pierce]

Guessing you like the gun or the price you paid or both. Guessing you could not sell it quickly and buy a round ball gun with the same money, quickly. So, reaming it is your best bet. Chopping it will require moving the front underlug and ramrod pipe and sight if there is one.

Get an adjustable reamer and a 4’ long square tube that fits it. Unbreech the barrel and insert the reamer set at muzzle inner diameter. Advance the oiled reamer while turning with a spanner. Stop the reamer from exiting the muzzle by setting up a board an inch in front of the barrel.

Remove, adjust the reamer a couple thousandths, oil, and repeat. After a while you’ll feel how much you can increase the diameter with each pass. Every 20 passes or so, run an oiled patch down and look down the bore. Keep doing this until you begin to cut the full length of the barrel if you want to remove the choke completely. Or pre-determine the final muzzle diameter you want and stop there.