Author Topic: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle  (Read 1197 times)

Offline Born200years2late

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Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« on: December 11, 2024, 08:31:19 AM »
Hey y’all,
I’m saving up for a project and could really use some of y’all’s expertise who have been studying colonial rifles for a long time! I’m in the early stages of planning a reproduction based on a brief description of a rifle that made its way to Texas in 1819. This piece was said to have been "used in the first war against the English" and was described in the 1820s as a "very tall riffle, repaird along the butt end, with a fine silver round piece behind the britch."
Here’s the goal: create a rifle that’s historically plausible, true to its description, and also serves as a reliable hunting companion. I’m looking to gather ideas, images, and pointers to help guide the build. If anyone can help me sketch out a more concrete plan to bring to a skilled rifle maker, I’d be beyond grateful.
Historical Context:
Robinson (who brought this rifle to Tx) had two relatives in the Revolution so the rifle likely came from either
   1.   An uncle born in New Kent, Virginia, later of Buckingham County, who served in the 2nd Virginia Regiment before joining Morgan’s Rifle Company in 1776.
   2.   A grandfather from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania (near Carlisle), who had been in the area since the 1750s and was militia captain in early 1777
Given this background, the rifle was probably from one of those two relatives and had the style associated with whatever was likely each of those men carried. The description of a "repair along the butt end" makes me think of several rifles originally built with a wood patch box but converted to brass with the dovetail cut out in the plate patched. The "fine silver round piece" I imagine is an oval thumbpiece. Its length was notable even by the standards of the period, so I imagine a 46" or 48+" barrel.
My Preferences for the Build:
I want to balance historical accuracy with some practicalities for regular hunting. Here’s what I’m envisioning:
   1.   Caliber: .54 cal 
   2.   Barrel: Swamped Octagon to round (46–48+ inches)
   3.   Trigger: Double set
   4.   Stock: Cherry or maple
   5.   Style: Relatively simple—more refined than a “poor boy,” but not overly carved
   6.   Furniture: Brass
   7.   Patch Box: A simple two-piece design with a button release (not easily triggered while moving in the woods) built over something inletted for a wood box
Why I Need Your Help:
   •   Does this description and background align with what you’ve seen in 18th-century rifles?
   •   Have you come across any surviving examples or illustrations of rifles that might fit this description?
   •   Any tips for getting the balance right between historical plausibility and functionality?
I’d love to see photos, sketches, or links to resources that could help refine this plan. Especially interested in images of original rifles which could have found their way to the Cumberland Militia or Buckingham County so I can start looking at styles and profiles I like. Whether it’s insights into Virginia or Pennsylvania rifle-making traditions, or personal experience with similar projects, I’m all ears-
Looking forward to your thoughts and ideas—thanks in advance for sharing your expertise!
Cheers, 
-JTM

Offline smart dog

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2024, 04:56:05 PM »
Hi,
There was no Morgan's Rifle Company in 1776 to join.  Daniel Morgan and many of his riflemen were captured at Quebec in winter 1775-76.  He was released in early fall 1776 and took command of the 11th Virginia regiment, a mix of rifle and musket men, not called Morgan's Rifle Company.  In fact, later pensioners called it "Morgan's musket company".  His famous rifle corps was created in summer 1777 at Morristown, NJ.  They harassed the British all summer in NJ and then were ordered north to Gates' army just before the battles of Saratoga.  After Saratoga, they went south and served with Washington during winter 1777-78.  They were critically engaged at the Battle of Whitemarsh, PA during late fall 1777.  They wintered at Valley Forge and then served as scouts and light infantry until the British abandoned Philadelphia in June 1778.  Morgan's corps was much diminished by this time and they missed the Battle of Monmouth because of a miscommunication. After Monmouth. Morgan took command of the combined 11th and 15th Virginia regiments and the small remnant of the  Rifle Corps that was left was commanded by Thomas Posey.  Essentially Morgan's Rifle Corps no longer existed by summer 1778. 

Others can speak better about options for the uncle from Virginia but for the grandfather from Carlisle a nice early George Schroyer might fit the bill. 

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Born200years2late

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2024, 05:25:32 PM »
Whoops- late night typing and faulty memory. You’re right- Cabell’s company 1777.




Offline okawbow

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2024, 05:31:15 PM »
I built a rifle a few years ago that sounds close to what you might want. Not fornsale, but something likenit may work for you. .54 caliber, 48” swamped barrel. York County style.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31833.msg305168#msg305168
As in life; it’s the journey, not the destination. How you get there matters most.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2024, 07:43:52 PM »
Hi,
Yes, I have him as a Sgt. in Cabell's company in 1777.  The list is published in Mike Cecere's book "They are Indeed a Very Useful Corps".   Great!!

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2024, 08:48:03 PM »
I built a rifle a few years ago that sounds close to what you might want. Not fornsale, but something likenit may work for you. .54 caliber, 48” swamped barrel. York County style.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=31833.msg305168#msg305168
Great choice and very nice build.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Daryl

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2024, 09:54:50 PM »
Oh yeah - looks like a really nice handling rifle.


Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2024, 10:01:52 PM »
Oh yeah - looks like a really nice handling rifle.



I’ve got a 46” Rayl .54 swamped barrel I’m going to earmark for that build. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2024, 10:36:22 PM »
Interesting on the genealogy.  Littleberry Patteson is related to my Phelps lines here in Appomattox. Sadly I don't know of any rifles that early associated with this area. There are however rifles mentioned in my family inventories of this area as early as 1749.

Offline Born200years2late

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Re: Help with an 18th Cent Texas Rifle
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2024, 03:31:35 AM »
Wow- hello there cousin of sorts!
Yeah, I wish I had some idea of what rifles were in that Campbell/Appomattox county region before the 1780s. I wonder if most were coming from Pennsylvania down the great wagon road or if they were more likely purchased locally. And if they were coming down the road to be sold, what school of build most of those were coming from