Author Topic: Understanding Mr. Forester  (Read 1107 times)

Offline Woodpecker

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Understanding Mr. Forester
« on: February 10, 2025, 12:14:05 AM »
Frank Forester wrote in The Complete Manual for Young Sportsmen, published in 1868 that...

"If the change render it more difficult to shoot well, it is a retrograde step, not an improvement. For example, the percussion system is now, in spite of all old-fashioned prejudice and opposition, an admitted improvement on the old flint-and-steel system; and one, not the least, of its advantages is, that it has so much simplified the art of shooting flying, that there are now ten good shots, where there was one, forty years ago.

Consequently, the person who had learned with much toil and labor to shoot excellently with the old flint lock, took up the new percussion piece, and found himself at once, with no farther trouble, twice as good a shot as he was before. It was to him as if his old gun had suddenly doubled its celerity and accuracy of aim. It is certain that no good shot, with flint and steel, ever found himself a bad one with percussion, even on the first trial. Equally certain it is, that, take twenty crack shots with the percussion, and give them the best and most perfectly finished Joe Manton flint-and-steel lock, and the first week they will not kill three fair shots out of ten; in any given time, not one will shoot as well as he did with his copper caps, and probably one half of them will never become respectable shots at all."

Having finished a Kibler Fowler in 16ga, and having shot nothing but percussion to this point, I missed 6 clays in a row. Switching to patterning paper and paying attention to each pull, I finally see what Mr. Forester meant. The timing delay and movement of that lock is akin to having someone bump the stock every shot. At 15 yards for a cylinder bore the patterns were even but high, then low, then right, then left. Putting 2 clays on log pile took 3 shots to break them.

I have a new found respect for those of you who can wing shoot with a flintlock. I have much to learn.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2025, 03:33:59 AM by Woodpecker »

Offline axelp

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2025, 07:00:29 PM »
I have not shot clays for a while with my flintlock, but a few years ago, I hit 6 of 6 in a row and most of these were out at what I considered max distance. I also regularly limited out on pheasant (this was at a club that planted pen raised birds in local ag fields). I also hunt gray squirrels with it and do ok. Quail are a different matter and are more challenging for me. I have always been a decent wing shooter and it's definitely an art form that is very different from target shooting with a rifle. I am a mediocre rifle shooter. My flintlock fowler has been my "go-to" hunting gun for about 20+ years now. Would percussion make me a better shooter? probably. I know I do better shooting modern smokeless shotguns (my modern gun is circa 1939, LOL.). I doubt I am "twice as better" though.

I am satisfied with my current flintlock guns, but in a true survival situation, where I was starving, I would grab my old Browning A5 as long as I had ammo for it. I have shot that old thing ever since I was big enough to lift it.

K
Galations 2:20

Offline Daryl

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2025, 09:36:24 PM »
With a caplock or modern shotgun I slap the trigger as the front of the gun blots out the "bird" as I swing past. Whatever range the bird is, the proper lead is automatically given.
Swinging past is the key. BOTH eyes open.
With my flinter 20 bore, I have to wait until the front of the barrel/bead, passes the bird by a foot before I slap the trigger.
The speed of the swing seems to happen automatically. Try it, you might like it.
I gave up trying to judge lead in a steady motion long ago. Passing (swinging past) and slapping the trigger just works. ON the bird with fast ignition and 10" to a foot past for flinters
with fairly fast ignition.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2025, 12:22:59 AM »
IIRC  Mr. or Col. Hawker had some of the same opinions as Mr. Forester.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2025, 05:26:04 PM »
Smylee.
Some of Forester sounds like Hawker all right, but Hawker did say that when using a detonator, he had "his man" comment that he hadn't seen the Colonel take such long shots as he had formerly with a flint.
The next season Hawker was delayed by illness from taking the gun out till the end of the season, and when he did, he took out his Flint gun, and down came the long shots, as of old!

He ended by saying, "Can you shoot a flint gun well?  If yes, Leave well enough alone!
Can you" "No!"  Then by all means go and get a detonator!"

Offline Daryl

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2025, 05:09:21 AM »
"Detonator" cool!
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Jakob

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2025, 02:03:48 AM »
It depends a lot on your shooting technique.
If you're pulling sustained lead and have a good enough follow-through, then the only variable will be the velocity of the load. Timing will be the same.
If you're pulling through, then you'll need to re-adjust your timing to the slower ignition times of the flintlock.

One/two eyes open: Depends on your eyedominance and what you're used to. I don't have a strong dominant eye, so shooting with both eyes open is nearly impossible for me.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2025, 02:17:54 AM »
As I noted above, the swing past method automatically gives the proper lead, no matter the distance. No guesswork.
On the bird for cappers or modern and:
With the flinter, slapping the trigger (that's proper shotgun trigger control) when the bead or front of the gun passed the bird
by 10 to 12" gives the perfect lead for my flintlock "pelter".
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Jakob

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2025, 02:58:47 AM »
If you know how far to swing past, yes. But then it'll also vary depending on the timing of the gun. With sustained lead, the only variable (apart from distance) is the velocity of the load, which wont change the amount of lead that much.
 I use a mix of both, but it depends a lot on target behaviour, how quickly and stable my approach was, etc.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Understanding Mr. Forester
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2025, 05:54:52 AM »
It's all trial and error, get a hang-fire with any method and it's a miss.
Swinging past a certain distance is easily replicated, more so than learning a correct sustained lead, in my opinion.
Took me one shot as someone saw the shot charge or wad and said "you're a foot behind it". Next shot and the next 8 afterwards, I passed it by about a foot
before slapping the trigger.Have to keep the gun moving of course at the same speed. It was easy that day, to break 9 out of 10.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 09:21:19 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V