Building a true parts gun

[rich pierce]

As a project I’m thinking of building a true parts gun or composite gun. Not a mismatched bunch of new parts. A lock from one existing old or contemporary gun, a barrel from the same or different contemporary or original gun, furniture from either. The challenge is it will have to be a smooth bore and the parts predate 1780 in style. It’s an exercise. The lock may need work. The barrel may need reaming. I’ll have to use the furniture, side plate, lock and barrel tang with holes already drilled.

Right now the only suitable used smoothbore barrel I have is a round 32” 12 gauge. It could be used to make a cavalry carbine such as those seen in Of Sorts For Provincials by Jim Mullins. But the examples he shows were made in Great Britain, not “parts guns” made here. A used long barrel suitable for an all-rounder or New England or Hudson Valley fowler would be preferable. Don’t see them laying around very often.

The idea behind it is to go through the same steps a colonial gunsmith would when making a fowling piece or all-rounder smoothbore from salvaged wrecked or worn out guns. I’ve got more ideas than years left! 

[Daniel Coats]

Sounds like a great project looking forward to seeing your progress! Since you're looking for parts and not a "firearm" I would think your online sources might be expanded greatly.

[rich pierce]

Sounds like a great project looking forward to seeing your progress! Since you're looking for parts and not a "firearm" I would think your online sources might be expanded greatly.

Thanks Dan, I think I’m going to scout auctions for real wrecks.

[Hatchet-Jack]

That sounds fun! Part of what I absolutely love about building Flintlocks is doing the research and then finding the parts. I like the concept of your experiment to simulate how a Colonial gunsmith would build using old parts. Very cool idea!

[Robert Wolfe]

Rich great idea. I look forward to seeing it come to fruition.

[Not English]

What a great idea/exercise. I hope you keep us posted.

[Bill in Md]

Great Plan!!!....I would wager that 90% of utilitarian pioneer/homesteaders built not only their guns that way, but just about everything they needed to survive. When at shows and events I am always looking for used items to repurpose. As the saying goes...."there is nothing new under the Sun".....b

[Pukka Bundook]

Rich,

This to be honest is how I like to work.
I bought a bunch of cripples out of England some years ago, and also a good few parts.

I can look see what barrels I have that may suit you.

One is a rough old beast, octagon to round in maybe 14 bore but seem to think it is about 52" long.
Its makers mark is Thomas Bannister, and he made guns for Hudson Bay in the late 17th century and up to about 1707 I think.
Bore is rough, but started fine boring it.
Another is a little 20 bore barrel, and seems watered.  it's maybe 36"

Have a Thomas Peele barrel with a great heavy round breech I figure to use one day!
I will look see if I have any others.
One I know is octagonal and smooth about 40 inches .
Might have  a pare old buttplate .  T -guards, are a bit late for these early barrels. Oh! Have another that needs a lock and re-stocking. Stock was made out of two parts and someone in the dim and dusty chamfered one half to slip over the other in the fore-end!
Its a rough barrel but chimes like Big Ben.
I love these old magic parts and old guns much more than near perfect ones, but like you Rich, I have more ambition than time to get them fixed in!

[recurve]

watching with interest

If you find an original Bobby Hoyt can add a liner to make safe if needed or rifled 

[rich pierce]

I’ve successfully re-bored several old musket and fowler barrels. I use an adjustable reamer with good success. I take it back to mirror bright with the concentric rings in the light. So, unless the pits go through and through, many smoothbore barrels can be salvaged. 20 thousandths of an inch increase in bore size takes s as bit of time, but much less work than re-cutting rifling in a rifle barrel that is really bad.

[Telgan]

Awesome project Rich

[bluenoser]

Rich,
Your use of adjustable reamers for a rebore is interesting.  I have a couple antique fowler barrels I would like to clean up and have been thinking about the best way to get the job done.  I have adjustable reamers and have considered using one, but have been reluctant to give it a go.  In my experience, adjustable reamers can be a challenge to use due to the possibility of chatter and locking up.  I have found that a rigid setup with assured concentricity and very light cuts not under power is required.  Not sure how one would go about doing that in a rebore.  Could you explain how you get the job done?

[rich pierce]

Rich,
Your use of adjustable reamers for a rebore is interesting.  I have a couple antique fowler barrels I would like to clean up and have been thinking about the best way to get the job done.  I have adjustable reamers and have considered using one, but have been reluctant to give it a go.  In my experience, adjustable reamers can be a challenge to use due to the possibility of chatter and locking up.  I have found that a rigid setup with assured concentricity and very light cuts not under power is required.  Not sure how one would go about doing that in a rebore.  Could you explain how you get the job done?

Ok here’s my primitive setup. I mount the barrel in a vise. I get a long piece of square tubing that fits the end of the reamer. Near the breech I set up a vertical board with a round hole in it aligned with the bore by sighting through the muzzle. The hole in the board just allows the square tubing to rotate freely. A friend lent me a cross handle to spin the square shaft but now I’ve got to improvise. For a cross handle to turn the square reamer and advance it I will make a wooden handle 10” long with a square hole in the middle. There will be brass or steel plates facing the square hole in the center of the handle for reinforcement. I’ll cob up a wing nut set screw to keep the handle where I want it along the square rod as I advance the reamer.

In practice I set the reamer to just pass the tightest spot in the bore. I use lots of cutting oil. I do not let the reamer exit the muzzle completely. Then I expand it by feel. The first 20 passes remove rust and slowly progress to where it’s cutting along most of the length. I swab the bore with an oily rag from time to time. So the reamer is spun by hand a half turn at a time and advanced very incrementally.  I’d not use a drill or whatever. If I have to back it out, restart at a smaller diameter, I do.

The breech is the last to clean up and by then I’ll have a cup of frass. I can see why period gunsmiths cut the whole powder chamber off the breech end of the barrel, re-threaded it, and re-breeched it. It’s that much extra work, whether reaming a smoothbore barrel or re-cutting rifling.

All this could be done nicely with a dedicated drilling/reaming setup. I don’t have room or do this often enough to justify that.

[JTR]

rich, are you for old original parts for the project, or new stuff?
I have a original 43" long barrel, smooth bore now, about 64 cal. It's about 1.160" at the breech and 1 inch or so at the muzzle. Has sights, underlugs and is now percussion.
Also I have an early flint lock, no internal bridle type, that needs a main spring, otherwise is all there.
John
 

[rich pierce]

rich, are you for old original parts for the project, or new stuff?
I have a original 43" long barrel, smooth bore now, about 64 cal. It's about 1.160" at the breech and 1 inch or so at the muzzle. Has sights, underlugs and is now percussion.
Also I have an early flint lock, no internal bridle type, that needs a main spring, otherwise is all there.
John
 

John, old parts are preferred. Rehabilitation of old parts will hopefully be part of the project. I can make springs. Sometimes the first one works just fine! 

[WKevinD]

Rich,
Looks like your going to have a true "battlefield pick up" parts gun... great project. Blow out your candles at night when working on this spies are everywhere.

Kevin

[bluenoser]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Rich.  I might give that a try, but also considering making a dedicated single point cutter I can run under power or doing the job with a hone.  Some research and thinking to do prior to giving it a go.

[rich pierce]

Thanks for the detailed explanation Rich.  I might give that a try, but also considering making a dedicated single point cutter I can run under power or doing the job with a hone.  Some research and thinking to do prior to giving it a go.

Some use a hone to good effect. I worry about consistency of bore diameter.

[bluenoser]

Have used a shop built hone in the past with good results, but always open to trying something new.

[whetrock]

Rich, are you pulling the reamer or pushing the reamer?
I was once told that one of the better-known long-time manufacturers pulled their reamers, and the person who made the comment said he thought it contributed to a particularly good surface.

[JTR]

Hmmm, some parts,,,,
Oops, seems the Upload is broken...

[rich pierce]

Rich, are you pulling the reamer or pushing the reamer?
I was once told that one of the better-known long-time manufacturers pulled their reamers, and the person who made the comment said he thought it contributed to a particularly good surface.

I’ve been pushing but will try pulling.

[rich pierce]

Hmmm, some parts,,,,
Oops, seems the Upload is broken...

Pix not loading - usually the hosting site having a problem.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rich,
One thing to bear in mind when fine boring an old smoothbore barrel, is that a great many of them are not a true cylinder from end to end, but  bored on the 'Friction and relief' principle.
This can mean either a bit wider bore at chamber end, Or, a bit tighter, then a cylinder section, then the last part, (maybe about 9 inches, depending on barrel length)  will be relieved a bit towards the muzzle.
I have always spill bored rather than use a reamer, but it is likely a bit slower.   Its how I think the barrels were finished prior to rifling at Williamsburg, and the way English best guns are still finished.
(Boring bit with one sharp side, a wood slipper, and plenty of newspaper strips and oil!)

[rich pierce]

Rich,
One thing to bear in mind when fine boring an old smoothbore barrel, is that a great many of them are not a true cylinder from end to end, but  bored on the 'Friction and relief' principle.
This can mean either a bit wider bore at chamber end, Or, a bit tighter, then a cylinder section, then the last part, (maybe about 9 inches, depending on barrel length)  will be relieved a bit towards the muzzle.
I have always spill bored rather than use a reamer, but it is likely a bit slower.   Its how I think the barrels were finished prior to rifling at Williamsburg, and the way English best guns are still finished.
(Boring bit with one sharp side, a wood slipper, and plenty of newspaper strips and oil!)

Hoping someday to use such a setup. I have a local friend who has an original rifling bench that can be adapted to reaming. Because I mainly shoot round ball, a consistent bore is of some help. There’s still the shooter issue.