Blacksmith forging simple triggers and plate

[rich pierce]

Can anyone here share their methods? I’m guessing for simple triggers, heat a piece of plate, partially quench leaving one edge orange hot, clamp in leg vise and have at it the same as cold forging. 

For the plate, do you punch the slot?

[Kevin Houlihan]

Rich,
 When I'm making a simple trigger, I cut a piece of plate and clamp it in the vise jaws with very little sticking up above the jaws initially.  I then heat the "shoe" area to red and hammer away.  As more of the shoe gets formed I may clamp less of the plate in the jaw so there's more shoe to hammer on.  I never saw the need to preheat the whole plate in the forge - mostly because I don't have one 
Kevin

[whetrock]

Hi Rich,
For the trigger, I form it cold.
I put the piece of metal in the vise with a hardwood block under it, to keep it from sliding down from the hammer blows. I start out working it with a ball peen. Then after a little of that, I work the center line with a round-nosed punch. When I've punched a line down the center, then I go back to using the ball peen. Then back to the punch. Alternating like that will move metal quickly in a very controlled way. When there is enough metal moved to form the shoe, then I cut away the excess behind the lower end of the shoe, then clean it up, and roll the tip using a small pair of turning tongs/scroll tongs that I made out of an old pair of needle-nosed plyers. That last step is hot, of course.

For the plate, I fold it end to end, then saw out the slot. File it smooth, then straighten it out. Then put a spacer in there and hammer it shut against the spacer, to even up the width of the slot. That method is much more efficient than trying to drill a line of holes.

Here's a photo of a trigger and plate I made using these methods.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Rich for the triggers I've always approached it pretty much as you describe whether hot or cold forging but after looking at an awful lot of old single triggers very closely, I'm fairly convinced that the most common method was to start with a thicker piece of stock the width of whatever the desired trigger 'pad' is to be, and then mashing out the rest into a fairly thin blade.  And most of those antique triggers use blades thinner than most of us probably use for cold forging.  Most don't seem more than 1/16" at most and some are even thinner, especially toward the rear (sear contact area) of the blade.

I think many trigger plates were initially punched with a chisel before cleanup, which serves a dual purpose of also swelling out the sides of the plate wider via displacement as per many antiques.

[rich pierce]

Rich for the triggers I've always approached it pretty much as you describe whether hot or cold forging but after looking at an awful lot of old single triggers very closely, I'm fairly convinced that the most common method was to start with a thicker piece of stock the width of whatever the desired trigger 'pad' is to be, and then mashing out the rest into a fairly thin blade.  And most of those antique triggers use blades thinner than most of us probably use for cold forging.  Most don't seem more than 1/16" at most and some are even thinner, especially toward the rear (sear contact area) of the blade.

I think many trigger plates were initially punched with a chisel before cleanup, which serves a dual purpose of also swelling out the sides of the plate wider via displacement as per many antiques.

I really like the idea of punching the slot in the plate and widening the plate there. I’m going to use my 3/8” square mild stock to forge trigger plates when I can get the forge fired up. Too much snow right now. I’ll step down the thickness behind the tang bolt boss then draw it out and punch the slot. The trick there is to properly back the hot work while punching and not mar the anvil. So many projects to do! Also planning on forging out a dozen or so mainspring blanks, tapered and with the tab formed for the pin. I’ve got a pile of leaf springs and agricultural steel- harrow blades or what we called “drags”.

[Hungry Horse]

 I never hot forge primitive triggers. I always cold forge them out of 1/8th mild steel. I figured the old gunsmiths took all the shortcuts they could without sacrificing quality.

Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

I never hot forge primitive triggers. I always cold forge them out of 1/8th mild steel. I figured the old gunsmiths took all the shortcuts they could without sacrificing quality.

Hungry Horse

Me too, but I want to see if hot forging offers advantages. I like the idea of starting with fatter stock then flattening it after getting the shoe made.

[whetrock]

I suspect Eric is right about old methods that centered around a forge. I think the big difference there is that the old guys were often starting with large stock that needed to be brought down to size, and so, when envisioning the process, they more readily saw it as a series of steps involved in reducing size and changing shape without removing material. And if they didn't have the forge going today, no big deal--they would have it going tomorrow. I think their perspective on tools was different, as well. Files and hacksaw blades would have been expensive, being expendable supplies. The cost of coal or charcoal? I don't know.
For bigger parts like trigger guards and buttplates I also use the forge. But for smaller stuff, I usually just make it cold. If I didn't make a small part while the forge was going, then it's not worth starting it up. I can make some stuff cold and be done with it faster than I can build a fire and get the forge ready to work. For me, hacksaw blades are cheap. Coal is expensive.
As a hobbyist, time is the most "expensive" for me. So I tend toward methods that fit my hour here, hour there shop time opportunities.

[Bob Roller]

Back in THE DAY my method was a good hacksaw and some files.No beating anything with a hammer.Since 1967 a milling machine was used and it was money well invested.The only forging I did was mainsprings and to a lesser extent,the sear springs for locks.That single trigger shown here is a nice job and was a time study made to see how long it took to make it?
Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

I wonder if one method ( hot or cold ) has more chance  of cracking the shoe if you work too fast or aggressiyely?   

[Hungry Horse]

 The most labor intensive work you will ever do is 19th century technology done using 20th or 21 st century shortcuts.

Hungry Horse

[t.caster]

I just found this active tread after cold forging this trigger this afternoon! I used 12ga. hrs.
 Rich told us to try 12 or 14 ga. per his demonstration at Kempton last summer.

[Devoe]

Whetrock, that is a nice job on that trigger and plate. Thanks for the tips!

[Eric Krewson]

I never use heat to forge the trigger, I do use heat to get the bend right, I cold forge them with a blacksmith hammer to spread the metal.

Here are a couple test pieces to see how they would come out. There is a lot of filing involved.



I cold forged the trigger and cut out the offset trigger plate for my fowler, not period correct but I like it. I have since polished and grayed the trigger to match the trigger guard.

[whetrock]

Whetrock, that is a nice job on that trigger and plate. Thanks for the tips!

Glad it was helpful. I think I learned that trick with the punch on here somewhere a long time ago. I would happily give credit if I could remember the source!

[Clint]

I will go along with shoe hammering techniques , already discussed. Slotting the triggr plate is very easy to do with a punch. Many door locks have small square or rectangle holes which are used to position and fasten springs etc. For a trigger plate the punch can be made out of 3/4 octagon steel, hammered down to a little over 1/8" thick and 3/4" wide. the face is ground flat and the four sides are ground to make a sharp 90 degree corner. Rich is using 3/8" square steel so the punch wants to be slightly hollow ground to keep the 'ears' from spreading too much.
Heat the trigger plate to a bright red and gently (one or two hammer blows) start the punch into the plate from the inside. If the mark is centered and looks good, take another heat and drive the punch through until you hit the anvil, By the time you hit bottom the punch will be pretty hot so don't push it. if you do the punch will mushroom and it may not come back out of the hole. Flit the plate over and lay it over a vice so that the trigger pin lug will not be crushed and punch out the flash left in the bottom of the hole, It takes less than a minute to do the whole operation and longer to read it.

[silky]

Hi Rich,
For the trigger, I form it cold.
I put the piece of metal in the vise with a hardwood block under it, to keep it from sliding down from the hammer blows. I start out working it with a ball peen. Then after a little of that, I work the center line with a round-nosed punch. When I've punched a line down the center, then I go back to using the ball peen. Then back to the punch. Alternating like that will move metal quickly in a very controlled way. When there is enough metal moved to form the shoe, then I cut away the excess behind the lower end of the shoe, then clean it up, and roll the tip using a small pair of turning tongs/scroll tongs that I made out of an old pair of needle-nosed plyers. That last step is hot, of course.

For the plate, I fold it end to end, then saw out the slot. File it smooth, then straighten it out. Then put a spacer in there and hammer it shut against the spacer, to even up the width of the slot. That method is much more efficient than trying to drill a line of holes.

Here's a photo of a trigger and plate I made using these methods.

Pete,

With regards to the trigger plate, do you heat it to make the bend? And then to flatten it again?

- Tom

[rich pierce]

Good advice, all. I’ve made a couple dozen simple triggers using the cold forging method. Now that my forge is set up I’ll be doing more hot forging.

 Eric K, I really like that trigger and plate.
Clint, sounds good; thanks for the detailed explanation.

[whetrock]

Pete,

With regards to the trigger plate, do you heat it to make the bend? And then to flatten it again?

- Tom

My apologies to Rich for accidentally high jacking his thread. I'll answer to the best of my limited knowledge.
 
Tom, yes, thanks for asking about folding the plate. I should have mentioned that earlier. The plate in that photo was 1/8" hot rolled, so, it needed to be heated for both bending and flattening. Thinner stuff in mild steel might not need heating, but it would need additional material at the front, to make a boss for the tang bolt hole. There are several ways to make these things.

I should also mention that trigger shoes had various shapes. This leaf-shaped shoe is an option. Antiques have various shapes. Some were more or less even all the way down, and some are even a bit wider at the tip. Early rifles tended to have wide trigger shoes. It can be hard to get views of that kind of detail. Most photo books don't show views of trigger shoes or other little details that some of us want to know about.
Here's a link to Ken Gahagan's version of a Christian's Spring rifle. The oblique views give a few glimpses of the very wide trigger, and of all sorts of other details you won't see in a side view. Super cool rifle.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/08/ken-gahagan-after-christian-springs.html

Smylee Grouch, regarding cracking. I haven't had them crack with this technique, using mild steel. Peening with the punch along the centerline basically splits the edge on the centerline and pushes the two halves to the sides. Provided the width at the center line grows at the same rate up and down its length, then the edges just move out evenly and aren't stressed. But I will mention that with this leaf-shaped shoe (in the photo), the middle portion is a little wider than the area above and below it, so it may have been close to pushing the limit. I don't know how wide that middle could have gone without cracking.
I have had edges crack when using just the ball peen hammer method, without the punch. The punch technique seems better to me. But my experience is limited.

Bob, I appreciate your encouragement.
Regarding a time study, I don't know how long this one took. I have timed myself on some bits and pieces, but not on triggers. I should make several in a row and see how long it takes.

[Eric Krewson]

All I had around the house was thicker metal for trigger plate so that is what I used; more metal to thread the tang bolt into but a lot more filing.