Author Topic: Auctions  (Read 2309 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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Auctions
« on: March 03, 2025, 06:55:58 PM »
Any good longrifle auctions on the horizon?  I've been checking here and there, but have not seen that much.

Online rich pierce

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Andover, Vermont

Online EGG17601

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Lancaster, PA

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2025, 05:59:32 AM »

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2025, 03:27:21 PM »
Morphy has one live. Now.

https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Military-Artifacts/Flintlocks/A-INCISE-CARVED-HEAVY-BARREL-FLINTLOCK-KENTUCKY-TARGET-RIFLE/lotInformation/90544695

I happen to be the new owner of the rifle in the link.

Congratulations!  What a beautiful patchbox.

Thank you. That is actually my first Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifle acquisition, as the only muzzleloader I owned previously was a Leman Civil War era militia rifle I bought in December. I am fairly confident the rifle is from York County and made by C. Zorger.  The name on the barrel is that of a prominent York County iron-making and hardware firm. There is a C. Zorger in Shumway's "Pennsylvania Longrifles of Note" on pp. 64-65 with incise carving strikingly similar to that of the Morphy gun (C. Zorger apparently frequently replicated the same patterns rather than introducing new ones). The patchbox designs are similar, however, Shumway also notes the existence of at least one C. Zorger patchbox with a dog head finial similar to those appearing on some Adam Ernst York County rifles. The Morphy rifle indeed has a dog head finial, which I think is a really cool feature. It is quite similar to Ernst examples pictured online. C. Zorger was also known as a maker of target/match rifles like the Morphy gun, which of course lacks some overall elegance of form relative to many general-purpose longrifles. As a Lancaster County native and resident, a York County rifle is right in my neighborhood, so to speak.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 04:02:09 PM by EGG17601 »
Lancaster, PA

Offline Daryl

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2025, 09:27:40 PM »
Pray-tell, what is the calibre of this "heavy" most interesting rifle?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2025, 11:07:09 PM »
Pray-tell, what is the calibre of this "heavy" most interesting rifle?

According to the auction listing it is .65 caliber.
Lancaster, PA

Offline Daryl

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2025, 10:29:48 PM »
I thought I was the only one who liked large bore target rifles?
Joking aside, .65 is quite a size for "target shooting". :o
Can't help but wonder if it's just a big, heavy hunting rifle.
What does it weigh?
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2025, 11:19:32 PM »
I thought I was the only one who liked large bore target rifles?
Joking aside, .65 is quite a size for "target shooting". :o
Can't help but wonder if it's just a big, heavy hunting rifle.
What does it weigh?

It is a brute, isn't it? It's noticeably less elegant even than the C. Zorger target rifle in Shumway's book. And I am assuming the caliber in the auction listing is correct, but it is in any case a very heavy barrel - I will need to weigh the rifle after I have it. I bid on it because I liked the patchbox and the carving, I was really focusing on a Leman in the same auction.

EDIT: Checking the auction listing again, it does mention extra dovetails on the barrel for sight adjustment, which I think does argue for it's having been a bench rifle.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2025, 02:01:33 AM by EGG17601 »
Lancaster, PA

Offline Jacob_S_P

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2025, 10:06:12 PM »
EDIT: Checking the auction listing again, it does mention extra dovetails on the barrel for sight adjustment, which I think does argue for it's having been a bench rifle.

Extra dovetails can also indicate the rear sight had to move based on the owner's aging and changing eyesight, or a new owner's different eyesight. I've seen a few where the rear sight was moved rearward as many as 4 times.

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2025, 11:08:30 PM »
EDIT: Checking the auction listing again, it does mention extra dovetails on the barrel for sight adjustment, which I think does argue for it's having been a bench rifle.

Extra dovetails can also indicate the rear sight had to move based on the owner's aging and changing eyesight, or a new owner's different eyesight. I've seen a few where the rear sight was moved rearward as many as 4 times.

At this point in my life, I'm probably a six or seven rearward sight movement marksman.
If that was done for an aging owner, I'm surprised he was still able to hold the rifle.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2025, 11:22:06 PM by EGG17601 »
Lancaster, PA

Offline JTR

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2025, 03:08:20 AM »
John Robbins

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2025, 06:28:04 PM »
Rock Island's catalog for May should be out later this month.
I am the Describer Supervisor at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own interest American longrifles & history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2025, 09:03:18 PM »
Rock Island's catalog for May should be out later this month.

Morphy also has another firearms auction coming up in May.
Lancaster, PA

Offline 120RIR

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2025, 10:12:42 PM »
A supposed Dickert was just listed here:

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-house/bradford's-3dve2b2o3o

The photos aren't the greatest and they don't provide a photo of the signature but if it is what they say it is is looks pretty nice.

Online Stoner creek

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2025, 10:26:04 PM »
They must have updated the photos. There’s a picture of the signature. That poor of gun has had a tough life.
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Offline JTR

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2025, 01:42:37 AM »
That's Dickerts signature and touchmark.
Certainly not an early one. If his hand, more like the last one he ever made...
John
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 01:58:07 AM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2025, 04:26:13 AM »
Some of the incised lines in the butt carving look "different" to me. They are a lighter color than the simple incised wrist carving, some cuts are too wide and sloppily cut. The small "rising sun" figure above the main "C" scroll looks very amateurish. Without a hands-on inspection, I'd be leery the original larger, and very simple, deeply cut "C" scrolls in the butt might have been enhanced with additional incised carving. The box is hard to see, but looks only sparsely engraved, perhaps matching a simpler, more sparce butt carving originally.

Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 06:35:46 AM by Tanselman »

Online rich pierce

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2025, 04:38:21 AM »
Some of the incised lines in the butt carving look "different" to me. They are a lighter color than the simple incised wrist carving, some cuts are too wide, and sloppily cut. The small "rising sun" figure above the main "C" scroll looks very amateurish. Without a hands-on inspection, I'd be leery the larger, original, and very simple, deeply cut "C" scrolls in the butt might have been enhanced with additional incised carving. The box is hard to see, but looks only sparsely engraved, perhaps matching a simpler, more sparce butt carving originally.

Shelby Gallien

I bet his grandson who played around with the finished carving really got a stern talking-to!

I had the same impression, Shelby.

Cool gun, a nice addition to a collection of “as found” guns. And other than the “possibly extra” incised carving it’s a real later Dickert.
Andover, Vermont

Offline JTR

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2025, 06:14:03 PM »
I think the carving is somewhat amateurish, and that's why I said the last one he made. ??? Shelby could be right on the enhancements.
As for the patchbox, what can be seen of the engraving, is Dickert style and is also on his other rifles, and the PB latch looks good as well. I can't see the hinge well enough to tell whether it's correct. In the pictures, the door looks a slightly different color that the side plates.
Lastly, the signature on the barrel looks good and strong.

PS. On second look, I think most of the incised carved lines on the cheek piece side were cut well after original. I would think the original is the incised carving ahead of the cheek piece. And the dark colored semi double C behind the cheek piece. Most of the remainder; after the fact.  :-\   
Here's a better pic. Click it for a better view.


« Last Edit: March 23, 2025, 04:43:42 PM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2025, 12:06:18 AM »
Rock Island Auction's catalog is now live online:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/catalog/4094/
I am the Describer Supervisor at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own interest American longrifles & history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2025, 12:22:58 AM »
Interesting...  I think some of their estimates are unrealistic, but time will tell. 

Online EGG17601

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2025, 02:52:33 PM »
Digital catalog for the May Morphy auction is now online:

https://issuu.com/morphyauctions/docs/2025_may_13-15_firearms_militaria?fr=sOTZjOTgzNTYzMjU

Might want to start around p.206 depending on how varied your interests are.
Lancaster, PA

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2025, 07:22:22 PM »
Rock Island Auction's catalog is now live online:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/catalog/4094/
WOW, lot 270. Not American, but WOW.

Offline 120RIR

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Re: Auctions
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2025, 01:06:30 AM »
Having sold my soul to the devil for a rifle (again), I decided to show a modicum of restraint for a change and not get all that aggressive in pursuing this interesting piece that sold at Fontaine's today.  It appeared on Live Auctioneers a few weeks ago.  I gave it my best shot for a future restoration project as it looks more than worth the effort.  There was no mention of any signature but one would think there's a good chance it's there under a lot of dirt and corrosion.  Any thoughts on where this one came from?  I was thinking, possibly, North Carolina?  Regardless, I presume it's headed to someone's bench and hopefully one day we'll see it on this forum with some new life breathed into it.  Not great photos I know but they're right off the listing.