Author Topic: Rust bluing problem  (Read 1515 times)

Offline Garyrad

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Rust bluing problem
« on: March 10, 2025, 03:50:16 AM »
Hello, I have a new barrel made by Bob Hoyt. I was looking for a different look, so I sandblasted it with glass bead. I rusted it 4 times with LMF rusting solution and cleaned it between coats with fine scotch bright and then boiled it. After the barrel dried, I soaked it with motor oil. The barrel looks great nice and black. The problem is as I wipe the oil off the black keeps coming off. I am not sure what the problem is. Any ideas would be great.
Thanks, Gary

Offline Sidelock

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2025, 04:01:09 AM »
The procedure I have used to great success is to boil the barrel after each application of rusting agent.  After each boiling, card off the black residue and do it again, until you get the color desired.  I suspect what you got is a build up of the oxidized residue from the 4 rusting applications before boiling.  I suggest continuing to scrub down the barrel until that black residue is removed.  Hunks of burlap work very well if you got it.  If you end up with less color than you want, degrease and start the rusting/boiling process over. 
If you cannot see the irony in having a gun ban enforced by men with guns, then you fail to understand why the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place....

Offline snapper

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2025, 05:10:53 AM »
make a very thick paste with baking soda and water and rub it aggressively all over the barrel with your hands and then rinse with water.   That should take care of the problem.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline JPK

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2025, 07:11:42 AM »
I agree with Sidelock, to add to his good advice allow the barrel to set for a day when you oil it before rubbing it down.
A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2025, 03:01:07 PM »
Agree with Sidekick and JPK.  The boiling/steaming converts the brown ferric oxide to black ferrous oxide and leaves a loosely attached layer of oxide on the surface.  To my understanding, the standard practice is to boil and then card - not the reverse.  If you did not card after the boiling, you are likely seeing that loosely attached layer rub off.  Should be able to remove it by rubbing with burlap or super fine steel wool.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2025, 08:01:41 PM »
This is how I do my barrels most of the time:
First let me say that there are other ways to accomplish this task and get fine results but I find this works for me with what I have available to me. The items below are the materials that I use for rust bluing a barrel.
Mark Lee #1 Express Blue, small glass container, tap water (I have a water softening system in the house), Coarse cloth such as heavy denim, Terry cloth towel, or maybe burlap which I have not tried, rubber gloves or the like, heat source to heat up gutter + water to boiling or a little less, something to plug the openings in the barrel so no water can enter, a degreaser.
I use a steel gutter from Home Depot that I solder on end caps to contain water. I suggest making the gutter 2 to 4 inches longer than your barrel plus tang and muzzle plug.
Bend up some stiff wire (qty-2) to support the barrel at each end in the gutter so that it does not contact the bottom.
OK – now for the barrel preps. What I will be discussing here is what I did for this barrel and for the finish results I was looking for which was a dark blue/black non-polished look which is what I do the most of.
You need to degrease the barrel very good - I used acetone. I made up a barrel holder from scrap wood so that I could apply the Mark Lee #1 Express Blue.
I poured a small amount of the bluing into a small glass container and dipped my cotton pad into it – squeezed out most of the excess and starting from one end of the barrel I make a continuous pass towards the other end of the barrel. I did the same with the other 7 flats. NOTE: reapply the bluing solution to the pad to keep it slightly wet (very damp) but not “dripping” wet. When all the flats have been done I set the barrel aside for about 4 hours. NOTE: I did not have a “sweat box” I just left it sit out in the air. After 4 hours I placed the barrel into boiling water for about 15 minutes. I then removed the barrel and vigorously scrubbed down the barrel with a coarse cloth if you have burlap then use it instead. I then reapplied the bluing solution as above and set it aside for another 4 hours then back into the boiling water. I did this process two more times until I got the look I wanted. When it was done I applied a healthy coating of oil to the barrel and set it aside for 24 hours. After 24 hours I wiped off the excess oil and assembled the gun.





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Offline Darrin McDonal

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2025, 08:55:04 PM »
The problem is you scrubbed the rust off and you need that rust to blue. After you apply the Browning solution and let it get a good layer on, then you boil the bbl in the distilled water. and repeat 3-4 times, lightly carding between coats.
Darrin
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Colonial Williamsburg
Owner of Frontier Flintlocks

Offline sdilts

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2025, 02:53:25 AM »
PW,
Do you heat the barrel first before applying the solution?

Offline Sidelock

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2025, 07:15:40 AM »
Seems to be some interest here so I'll explain my procedure, which isn't too different from others already mentioned.
 My go to rusting agent is Mark Lee's Slow Rust Blue #3 formula - just follow the instructions included with the bottle, it will work.  After polishing the barrel down to 400 grit, degreasing the heck out of the barrel with whatever method you choose (I prefer Acetone), then apply the rusting agent.  Do this with a cotton ball, soaked in the solution, squeeze out the excess, swipe each flat one time in one direction.  The solution should go on in a sheen, not blotch up, if it does, there is still grease/oil present, degrease again.  Lay down a second coat of rusting agent like the first, in the other direction along the barrel, swiping once down each flat.  Then set the barrel out to "rust".  In the winter here in the Ohio Valley, I use a cabinet that I control the heat and humidity in, set the barrel in there for about 90 min.  In the summer around here, just hang it outside in the shade.  Don't, let the barrel turn into a Chia-Pet, you are looking for a nice even coat of dullish brown rust.  At that point, into the boiling water.  I boil on a 3 burner propane camp stove in a steel container I welded up for that purpose - I use rain or pond water.  Anything that gets your barrel into boiling submerged into boiling water will work however.  Let it boil about 2 mins (Last coat, let it sit about 5 - 10 mins.). You gotta card off the black junk on the barrel after removing from the water and allowing it to cool.  I card off the junk with a .025" soft wire  4" carding wheel (Brownells), mounted on a Jet wood lathe running at 300 rpm.  Lightly card off the junk from each flat, then repeat the whole process.  It may take 5 - 8 applications and 2 days to finish the job.  I have never had to neutralize a rust blued barrel when I have completed.  Lightly oil, and she should be good to go. 
If you cannot see the irony in having a gun ban enforced by men with guns, then you fail to understand why the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place....

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2025, 03:10:58 PM »
Looks good to me, but I don't boil after each application.  Boiling/steaming after the last application seems to work just as well with carding between applications, but not after the last application before boiling.
A couple comments regarding Mark Lee products.
I believe their browning product and their bluing product are one in the same.  Only the process differs.  I have used each product both ways and could see no difference.
Much more detailed instructions can be found on their website.

Forgot to mention:  Recently discovered makeup applicator pads.  They work great and I doubt She Who Must be Obeyed will miss just a few ;D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 03:22:09 PM by bluenoser »

Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2025, 04:41:54 PM »
I use Mark Lee’s express blue with very good luck.  I can fully do a barrel in 2-3 hours depending on how many cycles I do. 

FYI, for those that use it.  I talked to Mark a couple years ago and he does not plug barrels anymore.  But gets them oiled up good when done.  I now do the same with no issues.

Here’s a picture of a barrel done with the express blue.
Bob


Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2025, 11:38:25 PM »
PW,
Do you heat the barrel first before applying the solution?
I did not - but some heat would start the process quicker than a cold barrel. Just don't heat it up too much as you might end up with a splotchy finish :-\
I stopped plugging my barrels after the first one - the plugs never sealed off the bore well.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2025, 11:44:02 PM by P.W.Berkuta »
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Garyrad

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2025, 02:09:59 AM »
Thanks for all the info. I boiled after each application and that did the trick
Thanks again, Garyrad

Offline HighUintas

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2025, 03:57:02 AM »
I use Mark Lee’s express blue with very good luck.  I can fully do a barrel in 2-3 hours depending on how many cycles I do. 

FYI, for those that use it.  I talked to Mark a couple years ago and he does not plug barrels anymore.  But gets them oiled up good when done.  I now do the same with no issues.

Here’s a picture of a barrel done with the express blue.
Bob


Would you mind expanding on your process? I'm curious how you fully rust blue a barrel in 2-3hrs

Offline snapper

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2025, 04:06:30 AM »
Express blue is not rust blue.......

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2025, 05:31:14 PM »
I use Mark Lee’s express blue with very good luck.  I can fully do a barrel in 2-3 hours depending on how many cycles I do. 

FYI, for those that use it.  I talked to Mark a couple years ago and he does not plug barrels anymore.  But gets them oiled up good when done.  I now do the same with no issues.

Here’s a picture of a barrel done with the express blue.
Bob


Would you mind expanding on your process? I'm curious how you fully rust blue a barrel in 2-3hrs

Mark Lee’s Express Blue.  It’s not a cold blue.  The steel is rusted and boiled just like a long rust blue process, just has much shorter cycle times.  Cycle times are around 15 minutes each.  The only thing I do different from Mark’s instructions is I boil for 10 minutes rather than 5.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2025, 05:48:03 PM by bobw »

Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2025, 05:43:55 PM »
Express blue is not rust blue.......

Fleener

I have no clue what it is technically.   But, I can tell you that the steel is rusted, boiled and carded just like the long process.  I card with scotch brite and can tell you it’s not laying on top, it’s in the barrel.  I would have to ask if you have used it though, because these barrels look as good or better than barrels I have had done by folks using the long process.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2025, 09:13:32 PM »
I've used Mark Lee's Express Blue for a LONG time and always been happy with the results. The better that you finish the bare metal the better finish you get.
I can do a barrel in about two hours for a nice acceptable look or three plus hours for a higher polished look. Very few people can tell the difference between a slow rust blue and Mark Lee's Express Blue process when done right.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline snapper

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2025, 05:34:25 AM »
I stand corrected.   Should not of commented as l have never used that product.   I almost deleted my post prior sending and should of.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2025, 05:09:00 PM »
I recently restored an early Lyman scope and used the express blue on it.  The before and after contrast is easy enough to see.  One thing I did differently on it, was polish to 1200 rather than the industry standard of 320-400 as used in regular rust bluing and case hardening.
Bob






Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2025, 11:56:02 PM »
Nice Job BobW. Is that gloss finish from a coating of oil / wax or is it the Express Blue and your polishing job?
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Daryl

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2025, 02:16:48 AM »
The higher the polish, the brighter the end finish.
Daryl

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Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2025, 05:34:54 PM »
Nice Job BobW. Is that gloss finish from a coating of oil / wax or is it the Express Blue and your polishing job?

It had a nice gloss finish coming out of the bluing but it does have a very light coat of oil in this picture.  Don’t want oil on the inside of a scope so it got a good oiling after bluing, left overnight and then completely cleaned of oil and assembled.  With a light coat of oil once assembled, no wax.  Restoration of this scope was one of those “can I do it” jobs, so I really had no clue as to how to go about, ending up learning as I went.
Bob

Offline Waksupi

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2025, 05:40:28 AM »
I use Mark Lee’s express blue with very good luck.  I can fully do a barrel in 2-3 hours depending on how many cycles I do. 

FYI, for those that use it.  I talked to Mark a couple years ago and he does not plug barrels anymore.  But gets them oiled up good when done.  I now do the same with no issues.

Here’s a picture of a barrel done with the express blue.
Bob


That finish would be unacceptable to me. Very uneven.
Ric Carter
Somers, Montana

Offline bobw

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Re: Rust bluing problem
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2025, 04:20:54 PM »
Don’t know what you are seeing, but know that it is tough to get good pictures of something like this.

Maybe this picture looks better to you?  Same barrel.