Horn Makers Have you encountered this?

[Jeff Murray]

I was working a long, unremarkable horn that had a nice double curve.  The tip was very dense and drilled hard.  I ran out of drill bit as it started to punch through the outside curve.  Cut the tip off to see if I could reattach to a cutdown horn body and found what looked like a double "horn within a horn".  The inside piece of the tip came out.  I cut a slice off to clean up the drill out and the inside piece came out of the slice as well.  You can see the two distinct "horns" looking at the cut off body of the horn.  I was curious if any of you making horns have encountered this before?

[bigsmoke]

Yes, it has happened to me a few times, but that is pretty rare.  Out of all the thousands of horns I have made, maybe two or three times.
I guess it would be called a severe delamination, with the emphasis on the word severe.
A thought for you, though.
When you are working on a horn that feels extra heavy in the front, it is a good idea to run a piece of wire (coat hanger, etc.) from the back forward to see where the cavity stops.  You want to press down so the wire follows the bottom curve of the horn, mark it with your finger then lay the wire on the outside bottom curve and mark where the cavity ends.  Then you will be able to judge how far back you will need to cut the tip off to be able to drill a clean hole without ventilating the bottom of the horn.  And will the nose of the horn be too wide to trim down to a decent diameter when you are through.  I usually cut the horn so that the tip will dress down to about 1/2".
I found that after a while, I was able to judge about how far back I needed to cut the tip off the horn without getting into the cavity.  It's just a matter of experience.
John (Bigsmoke)

[Beaverman]

I've seen that once also, couple 12 years ago, I thought long and hard about what made that happen and my best guess was the horn got damaged/ injured when the bull was young and that was natures repair?

[Austin]

All horns have a bone ‘horn’ inside them. It looks like it wasn’t removed before you started working with it. Especially if they curve hard or double curve. Most the time you can pull them right out. What you guys are working with is like the shell or ‘bark’ of the horn.

[rich pierce]

That’s all horn - keratin - not bone. Bad luck on that one but fortunately you weren’t too far along. How about epoxying it back in place?

[Jeff Murray]

I did mark the cavity with wire prior to drilling.  The cavity seems to be about 1.5 inches below the flat cut shown in the picture which is back farther than I originally thought with the wire measure.  I am not sure continuing to work the horn is worth it.  It looks like the center piece of the horn body is not firmly attached to the outside portion and would not taper or carve well without coming apart.  I have been making horns since the 80's and this is the first one like this I have encountered.   Maybe I will cut it in half the long way just to see.  Thanks for the feedback.

[B.Barker]

I've seen lots of delamination in horns from longhorn cattle. Not sure why but seems like they are really bad for it.

[j. pease]

I have seen multiple delamination in horn, usually in older horns that have set around for a while, especially on heavier horns