Author Topic: JBMR Original Jag  (Read 1005 times)

Offline Woodpecker

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JBMR Original Jag
« on: April 16, 2025, 02:19:07 AM »
I have a JBMR (John Browning Mountain Rifle) in 45 and noticed a cleaning jag stops short of the breech. I had a time cleaning it the first go around. After reading a bit online these evidently had a tapered jag. Does anyone own an original jag to measure the taper on? I'll likely need to make one.

Offline whetrock

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2025, 04:54:15 AM »
I had not heard of this until I read your question. I looked it up and found these photos. Perhaps the same one's you saw. Apparently it has a hollow breech plug of some configuration.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/john-browning-mountain-rifle-54-cal.177807/









Offline Woodpecker

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2025, 11:59:24 AM »
Thank you for the link and pictures. I had read mention of the breech and know it well from cleaning with multiple jags, but hadn't found those pictures. Very helpful. 

Hopefully someone has the 45 version and can measure it.

Offline whetrock

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2025, 02:13:06 PM »
So, from your last post, it sounded like you may have already been cleaning this particular rifle with multiple jags. Is that right?  So there is a step or shoulder going into the recess in the breach plug? How are you getting the small jag to clear the step so as to enter the breach plug? Or do you just wiggle it around until it goes in? If you have a small jag that seems to work adequately, then is that the diameter you need? It would still be good to know the length of that small section on the factory-made jags.

If you don't yet know that diameter (and if you don't get a reply regarding measurements), then you might try sanding a taper on a Poplar dowel from Lowes or Home Depot and then pressing it into that stepped recess, so as to get a print on the wood, which you could then measure for diameter. I wouldn't want to drive it in, as it might get stuck and break off, then you'd have to pull the breach plug. But just pressing it in firmly by hand might be enough to make dents in the taper on the dowel. My thought is that if you knew the diameter, then you could have a means of estimating the size of jag you needed for cleaning the breach plug. The jag would of course need to be smaller than the diameter, but I'm sure there is a chart (or advice from someone on here) that would give you an estimate of jag size in relation to caliber/diameter.

If the dowel had a really pointy tip, then careful experiments might give you a way to measure both diameter at the shoulder and also the depth you need from the shoulder to the bottom of that chamber.

You could, of course, pull the plug. But on some types of complex breach plugs that's not advisable. Can be a bit difficult to get everything lined up again.

Anyway, I hope someone replies. My suggestions may not be that helpful. Just thinking out loud here while I drink my coffee. Sorry that my post is so long. I type as fast as I can talk.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 02:35:41 PM by whetrock »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2025, 03:22:48 PM »
I’ve never seen such a jag but looks intriguing foe some patent breeches.
Andover, Vermont

Offline whetrock

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2025, 04:17:34 PM »
I’ve never seen such a jag but looks intriguing foe some patent breeches.

Rich, you had an interesting typo. Hope it's not prophetic!  :D

Offline rich pierce

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2025, 07:57:16 PM »
I’ve never seen such a jag but looks intriguing foe some patent breeches.

Rich, you had an interesting typo. Hope it's not prophetic!  :D
Unintentional, but let’s hope we are all safe!  I’m thinking that sort of jag would work poorly when the counterbore or patent breech section is of small diameter.  I’m also wondering if cloth patches might tear using this type when counterbores are small.  The patch would be stretched tightly on entry from the tip to the larger body. Then on entering a small counterbore, it would really get stretched, I’d think.
Andover, Vermont

Offline ScottH

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2025, 08:44:49 PM »
I have or had one of those jags that came with a TC "Hawken" in .54 caliber that I bought from a friend. I'm not sure where it is in my stuff at the moment. I think there is a distinct possibility that the jag was a Thompson Center product that they sold as an accessory.

Offline Joe R

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2025, 10:32:56 PM »
If you read all of the thread that whetrock links that jag is identified as TC.

The original jag that came with my .45 JBMR does not look like that jag. I am out of town right now but I’ll be glad to measure mine when I get back home after this weekend if no one posts it up before then.  I’ll try and remember but if I forget don’t hesitate to pm me to remind me.


Offline Steeltrap

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2025, 11:24:20 PM »
It would seem to me that a jag like that could easily be made from an existing one. Chuck it up in a drill press and file it to the desired diameter, the file the grooves in it to hold the patch.

Offline Daryl

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2025, 11:38:55 PM »
Someone went the extra mile on that crown. :o
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Scota4570

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2025, 12:19:27 AM »
Someone went the extra mile on that crown. :o

All the ones I have seen were like that.  I think it looks strange too. 

Offline Woodpecker

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2025, 01:35:30 AM »
Thank you all for the replies.

Joe R, I would appreciate a pic or measurements when you return as I have yet to see a pic of the originals.

Whetrock, Good suggestion on the dowel. My thoughts were, if measurements cannot be obtained, to taper and file a dowel with inletting black to get an idea of the breech shape. I currently use a 22 brush with patch wrapped around it to clean it, then up to a 45 jag. Blow it all out with WD-40 to be safe. Early on I noticed a difference in depth on the cleaning rod vs ramrod that led me down this road.

Offline RichG

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2025, 02:21:29 AM »
I turned the end of a 45 jag down to get into the patent breech on my T/C patriot pistols, works fine. Looks just like the one in photo.

Offline Woodpecker

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2025, 02:23:34 AM »
I took a pic of the breech that shows what looks like a stepped profile. I put a cleaning rod in it without jag, then with jag, and marked with blue tape. The point where the 45 jag stops and where the cleaning rod bottoms out is about 9/16". While it isn't difficult to clean, it'd be nice to know what the designers intended for jag taper.



seneca county humane society





Offline Daryl

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2025, 02:24:35 AM »
Someone went the extra mile on that crown. :o

All the ones I have seen were like that.  I think it looks strange too.

It's a perfectly crowned barrel, imho. Just like we and now many others here do now.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline P.C.Child

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2025, 05:03:51 AM »
I have a .50 cal JBMR jag.


Offline whetrock

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2025, 03:33:15 PM »
Wild! I would never have guessed it would look like that.

Offline Woodpecker

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2025, 07:35:33 PM »
That explains why the regular 45 jag feels like it binds before it bottoms. The breech plug is tapered and rounded. Looks like the jag may stop at the rifling.

Thanks P.C.

Offline whetrock

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2025, 09:35:49 PM »
I can't see how the suppository-like section actually accomplishes much. Seems like it would just go into the hole and touch the sides and bottom, but without wiping them. Assuming the fouling was already softened with water, then I guess that could be helpful, a bit like a paper towel being laid on a coffee spill on the countertop. But not the same as a jag actually being pushed and pulled up and down the bore, and not like a breach plug scraper that is twisted. I think the jag on this thing would prevent any twisting.

So I wonder if you might actually be getting better cleaning with the two-stage process you are using now, with the brush and patch for the chamber, and then the regular .45 jag for the bore?

Offline Daryl

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2025, 10:28:36 PM »
I have a .50 cal JBMR jag.


That protrusion seems to be outrageously if nor merelyvexcessively  long to me.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Woodpecker

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2025, 01:27:12 AM »
I can see where a piece of cloth over the jag made to fit the breech would clean well, and easier than a multi-stage process. It may clean perfectly with a twist or two. I can see where a mop would do the same thing as well.

Offline P.C.Child

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2025, 02:07:44 AM »
I always wondered why it was so long. Just a couple of months ago, a friend at our shooting club gifted me a bunch of misc. gun parts which included the pictured JBMR breech plug.  The following picture shows why the long tapered part measures 1.170 .


Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2025, 03:58:47 PM »
I reckon you would be better off with a small diameter tow worm and tow,  so it cold be  screwed around in that breech.
A close fitting patch will not clean very well I reckon.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: JBMR Original Jag
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2025, 06:25:17 PM »
I use a slotted jag on a separate rod to clean that area of the barrel after a good pumping flush of the barrel proper. One path to clean , one to dry and one to get excess WD40 out.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2025, 08:33:03 PM by smylee grouch »