Hawken kit update

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Well at a first glance it looks like a very "normal" Hawken. Kibler Kits have the headstart in quality and fit. I guess this one will also be more handy and well balanced as you said. The forestock looks not so bolt... I guess the Advantages are not so easy to see, just handling will convince us?

110% trust from my side, just let me know when pre order starts...

It's hard to explain to those who don't haven't studied these things much.  To be frank I could make pretty marginal gun in terms of design and they would still sell.  A significant portion of our customers have never really studied original work, nor emersed themselves in high level contemporary work.  They really don't understand what separates different levels of work.  It's often not about amount of decoration, but shapes forms, designs etc.  Things words don't explain well.  Let me just say that I approach every kit we make as if I were making a high end custom rifle.  There are things that separate an $8000-10,000 rifle from a $2000 gun. 

As to this particuar project, I'm very pleased at how it's come together.  I think the stock architecture and individual component designs are quite nice and come together very well as a whole.  I believe it fits within the context of original Hawken or plains rifles, but is a step up from the average piece.

As to pure function, I think it will be a joy to use.  It will handle great and with our careful production, it should function more like a fine English gun.

I hope this explains things a little.

Hi Jim,
Bree and Kathrine both know me by name. I have assembled many of your kits in the past, both for myself and for others. I am looking forward to building a Hawkin Kit. Each kit you design is far better than the last. My question is, how did you handle the barrel issue? Hawkins are known to be heavy-barreled, at least the original examples I've handled. What are your thoughts on this?
Rick

[WVrazd]

Looks great to me, proportionate for the larger caliber barrels. Larger butts are easier to shoulder and shoot without poking or pinching you. If it had a SMR size buttstock you would have to hold it more on your bicep and that wouldn't feel good with a 58 caliber. 

[Jim Kibler]

Well at a first glance it looks like a very "normal" Hawken. Kibler Kits have the headstart in quality and fit. I guess this one will also be more handy and well balanced as you said. The forestock looks not so bolt... I guess the Advantages are not so easy to see, just handling will convince us?

110% trust from my side, just let me know when pre order starts...

It's hard to explain to those who don't haven't studied these things much.  To be frank I could make pretty marginal gun in terms of design and they would still sell.  A significant portion of our customers have never really studied original work, nor emersed themselves in high level contemporary work.  They really don't understand what separates different levels of work.  It's often not about amount of decoration, but shapes forms, designs etc.  Things words don't explain well.  Let me just say that I approach every kit we make as if I were making a high end custom rifle.  There are things that separate an $8000-10,000 rifle from a $2000 gun. 

As to this particuar project, I'm very pleased at how it's come together.  I think the stock architecture and individual component designs are quite nice and come together very well as a whole.  I believe it fits within the context of original Hawken or plains rifles, but is a step up from the average piece.

As to pure function, I think it will be a joy to use.  It will handle great and with our careful production, it should function more like a fine English gun.

I hope this explains things a little.

Hi Jim,
Bree and Kathrine both know me by name. I have assembled many of your kits in the past, both for myself and for others. I am looking forward to building a Hawkin Kit. Each kit you design is far better than the last. My question is, how did you handle the barrel issue? Hawkins are known to be heavy-barreled, at least the original examples I've handled. What are your thoughts on this?
Rick

The barrel will be between 31 and 32 inches long and be tapered with a very slight amount of swamp.  Not enough swamp that you would even see it without being told it was there, but this will help with grace and weight.  There are certainly some short barreled hawken originals as well. 

[Bob Roller]

Make it with a shotgun butt stock and a bar in wood lock as an option and that will make it better looking to some of us.
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

LOL, Bob.

[Daniel Coats]

Give it time boys Jim's working on it!
Does no good to keep wishing for it to fit the image you have in mind. 



Image I made for entertainment.

[Bob Roller]

From the grip back.The rest is the result of smoking something really not to be used.
Bob Roller

[David Rase]

From the grip back.The rest is the result of smoking something really not to be used.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

Sgt.Schultz,
I know nothing .Helmut Mohr told me such a man would be cleaning toilets in the barracks in THAT German Army.We hope all is well with you and 2025 is prosperous.
Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

We've been spending a good bit of time on the Hawken project.  Pretty much everything is designed and components are being programmed for production.  The first stock should be run in a couple of weeks.  There is still LOTS of work to be done, though.  I think a fall release is reasonable.  Here are a few shots of the completely designed stock:









  As an aside, the stock and all components were completely designed inside of our CAD software.  No physical models were made, no digitizing or scanning etc.  This is a first for us and has been pretty revolutionary for us as a business.  This has really allowed us to iterate much faster, resulting in a better product and the whole process has gone much faster as well.  I have some additional upcoming kits designed as well.

 I really like it. The TG is the best design IMO, and its not a dating issue for those who think it might be. The early rifles are generally slimmer than the later ones. And the really late ones like the Bridger are pretty big rifles. This one looks like it should. IMO anyway.

[Dphariss]

I might also add that people used to looking at some of the absolute $#@* “Hawkins” (sic) over the past 60 odd years. This might look a little different. But I think its correct as is needed since the originals are all different for a greater or lesser extent. There. Are things that I might like a little differently and I am not a big time Hawken “expert”. But I have a pretty good idea what they should look like. From these “photos”. I see a nice 1/2 stock Hawken that LOOKS like a 1/2 stock Hawken. Not something from across the pond or something made to appeal to people accustomed to think a M 70 Win is what a rifle should look like. Many years ago an extremely talented friend, Ed Webber (he could and did, do first quality English work), made a prototype for the then Western Arms to send to Italy for reproduction. The problem, the Italians could not or would not make it. It had to many contours that they could not sand with drum or belt sander I guess. If you look to the various Italian “Hawkens” and you know the original Ed copied then you see the basic outline in the sloppy wood work.  At the time it was impossible to do the fine details by machine. But in the intervening now near 60 odd years this has changed. I am sure Jim Kibler is about to change all this.

[Jim Kibler]

Dan,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the nice review.  It’s appreciated.  I’ve begun making prototype stocks on our CNC machine and they are doing pretty well.  We’ve also begun making other parts too, so things are moving forward.  I’ll post more updates when I can.

Thanks again, everybody.

Jim

[Daryl]

Going to be a CRACKER of a rifle, Jim.
Best wishes with it. IT should sell well.

[Martin S.]

Dan,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the nice review.  It’s appreciated.  I’ve begun making prototype stocks on our CNC machine and they are doing pretty well.  We’ve also begun making other parts too, so things are moving forward.  I’ll post more updates when I can.

Thanks again, everybody.

Jim

Jim, if I were looking for my own fancy wood to send to you, what dimensions would you need for your new Hawken to work in your CNC machine?  I've got a line on a spectacular piece of wood, but I don't want to buy it if it won't work.

Thanks!

Martin

[HighUintas]

Dan,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and the nice review.  It’s appreciated.  I’ve begun making prototype stocks on our CNC machine and they are doing pretty well.  We’ve also begun making other parts too, so things are moving forward.  I’ll post more updates when I can.

Thanks again, everybody.

Jim

I saw somewhere recently you mentioned an updated sale launch timeline but can't remember what it was. What month do you expect these to start selling?

[Joe S.]

Can't understand folks poo pooing on this endeavor of Jims regardless...Unless you handled many originals, measured, built the same, how could you qualify as an expert and say the drawing doesn't look right??? Heck, no two originals are the same, both half stocks or full. Jim gives folks not overly blessed with a shop full of tools or talent a way of building a muzzleloader and making a nice looking I did that rifle.

[Jim Kibler]

Here’s a few shots of a stock I ran the other day.  Still some tweaking, but it’s getting there.

[Enfield]

Why are you using such nice looking wood for tests...

[Jim Kibler]

Well, I pulled a scrap chunk out from the bin that had a bark inclusion and it luckily cleaned up.  I've found that with this sort of thing sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.  This is a nice piece of hard maple.

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Hi Jim,
May I suggest that you make the rifle uniquely 'Kibler' by adding a side plate or cheek inlay? As it sits, it looks so cookie-cutter.
I apologise if I'm offending you. Not my intention.
Rick

[Jim Kibler]

No offense taken.  I don’t think it is at all cookie cutter, though.  I think the lines and shaping are pretty good, especially when compared to the vast majority of Hawkens, old or new.  I’ll probably add an optional oval cheek inlay as well, perhaps with optional engraving.  Funny thing is that you can’t please everyone.  Some would like it to have more of my style, while others can’t stand anything that deviates from original designs in the slightest.  In the end people are going to get what I like and am happy to produce.  I’ve worked hard at this stuff for decades, gained a decent reputation think I’m qualified to design more than most.

Sorry for the rant.  Again please know I didn’t take any offense, but just decided to get on a soapbox.

Jim

[Hawg]

I don't think it's cookie cutter at all. It's unique in my opinion. The lines are good. It's definitely better looking than most Italian or Spanish rifles.

[Jim Kibler]

Thanks, but that’s not a very high bar.😉

[Daniel Coats]

More like a trip hazard than a bar

[wmrike]

Why are you using such nice looking wood for tests...

What I thought.