Author Topic: studying originals?  (Read 1847 times)

Offline Nordnecker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1258
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2025, 04:49:03 PM »
Re: Jim’s original post. They say you can take a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. This is so true. I am not as keenly interested in long rifles as I once was. I have many interests and tend to completely immerse myself in whatever the current one is.
I have worked on many historical buildings. I am always surprised at how little the people in historical societies or interest groups know about actual construction techniques. I am always trying to find detailed answers and it can be very difficult.
I am particularly interested in Virginia built products. I once took an unknown Simon Lauck smoothbore to the Front Royal longrifle show and could hardly get anyone to even look at it. I was truly puzzled by this.
I am currently trying to find info on something that was so commonplace when I was young that no one even paid attention to it. I guess it was so ordinary that it was just taken for granted by everyone. Now, it is extremely difficult to even find a picture of one.
"I can no longer stand back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids."- Gen Jack T. Ripper

Offline Eric Kettenburg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4244
    • Eric Kettenburg
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2025, 05:08:57 PM »
I am currently trying to find info on something that was so commonplace when I was young that no one even paid attention to it. I guess it was so ordinary that it was just taken for granted by everyone. Now, it is extremely difficult to even find a picture of one.

AAAAAAANNNNNDDDDDD???????

Don't just leave us dangling in the breeze...
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline oldtravler61

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4526
  • We all make mistakes.
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2025, 05:28:15 PM »
   Seeing and handling antique or Contemporary firearms is one thing. But knowing what to look for in the differences is a whole new ballgame. Being around people who really know makes a world of difference. JMPO

Offline Bob Gerard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1486
    • Powder Horns and Such
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2025, 09:40:41 PM »
I am in a small group of guys who are teaching Scouts the basics of Muzzleloading and Black Powder shooting. One of our fellows is an avid collector of antique firearms ( which we often shoot). He puts many out on a display table at the range and encourages the youth to pick up and handle them, under a watchful eye. They get to hear stories of the original long and short guns, made and used from the mid 1700’s up through the Civil War. It’s a great opportunity to allow people to handle and learn about these historic firearms and often leads to some good questions and enliven their imaginations.





« Last Edit: May 11, 2025, 09:48:24 PM by Bob Gerard »

Online rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20144
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2025, 10:07:17 PM »
Great crowd!
Andover, Vermont

Offline Lone Wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2025, 05:58:32 AM »
One of the realizations of running a business such as ours is that the majority of our customers have never really studied any original work and a good percentage don't seem to have an interest in it either.  I realize I come to this with an entirely different background, but find this interesting. 

I remember Rich mentioning this a while ago and was wondering what others thoughts are?  From a personal perspective I would enjoy things more if there was more of an understanding and appreciation for these things, but do understand that everybody has different interests.

So what do you all think?  Any ideas to help promote original work?

I think you will find that in any field.  Someone with the passion for something to create a successful business is always going to have more appreciation for the inspiration behind the product than a vast majority of those who consume the product.  It is no different in my line of work.  The architect will always have a greater appreciation for the building than it's owner.  It can be a little disheartening and feel thankless when others don't value our work the same way we do, but you can't let that get to you.  At the end of the day, what ultimately matters is that the customer has enough appreciation to buy the product, at least from the business man's perspective.  The best we can do it to continue to educate and promote.  Your website has a blog section, maybe you could expand that to include articles that highlight original work, etc.

Another point to make is that your kits are fantastic, but they make building a gun so much easier than the kits that have been available until now that they are bound to attract those who just want to be able to put together a nice muzzleloader with minimal effort to shoot and hunt with and would otherwise not have the interest or drive to take on building from a blank or even one of the other kits.  There are some who might look at Kibler kits as dumbing down gun building, but I do not see it this way.  I think your kits are the best thing that has happened to the muzzleloading industry in decades because they are providing entry to the hobby to lots and lots of people who otherwise would not get in.  That's not only good for business, but over time there will undoubtedly be many whose "gateway drug" was their first Kibler kit and develop the interest in originals as well as their skills from there.

Here in PA, hunting license sales have been declining for years and the aging population of those who participate in our traditional flintlock hunting season shrinks each year.  That is why I love it every time I see someone in their 20s or 30s buy a Kibler kit and get excited about muzzleloading, even if they have no appreciation [yet] for the heritage.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 06:21:48 AM by Lone Wolf »

Offline Lone Wolf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2025, 06:02:26 AM »
Hi Jim,
You are exactly right that viewing originals is very valuable and the question is why don't more folks do it.  Part of the answer is access.  You and I and many other established makers have no problem getting invites to view collections and handle museum specimens. Most builders don't have that access and they may view guns in museums and photos  but cannot actually handle and examine the guns close up.  I spend many days each year inspecting original guns.  The first thing I do with a historical project is seek out the originals and examine them in the hand. However, most folks do not have those connections and looking at originals is restricted to seeing them behind glass at museums and shows or photos on the internet.  That can be valuable but it rarely provides the details that make or break a historical build. The alternative is to buy the best books showing originals from many angles.  Some do that but many of those books are rare and expensive.  Those of us who have easy access to many originals are a privileged class.   

dave

Really could not agree more with that.  When I got into gun building, I was completely on my own and in fact I still am.  I do the best I can learning from pictures in books and online, but that is not the same thing as being able to view and handle an original in person.  I've had a couple of opportunities over the years to see originals at events like the 18th Century Artisan Show, but nothing like described above.  For may of us, it is not our interest in original works that is lacking, but simply our access to them.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 06:13:32 AM by Lone Wolf »

Offline GumSloughMuzzleloader

  • Starting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: studying originals?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2025, 02:29:52 AM »
  Jim, I started paying more attention to originals because of you kits, your videos, and your posts on another forum. I read several times you stated "Study Originals" in your posts. You mentioned in several of your videos. I had no interest in buying a Fowler. No real reason other than I had a couple 12ga shotguns and a Colonial. 58 Smoothbore.  Then I watched your video on Fowler. Listen to you and Katherine talk about the history of the fowler and you showing us different styles and levels of the Fowler and they're history in the American Colonials sold me. My mind was made up to buy one before the video was over. It made my interest in originals grow. I've studied originals at online sources and I am ordering g a couple books.
  I know you're a busy man. If possible put out some more videos and live shows, and keep posting about originals and I'm sure other folks will keep it going.