L&R lock company service

[Bill in Md]

In a world of diminishing customer service, L&R are a breath of fresh air.....Had a near 30 year old Classic lock give up the frizzen spring. After sending back the pieces I received a new spring with no charge under their warranty.......Just figured they deserved a public thumbs up on this fine forum.

[Stoner creek]

All of our suppliers work hard to provide a quality product and good customer service. I know that L&R has wrestled with issues in the past but it’s good to get good customer feedback from them.
W

[Bob Gerard]

I have an L&R Durrs Egg lock that’s over 40 years old. The mainspring broke and I shipped it to them for repair; the new springs are not the same so they fillled the old holes in the faceplate and redrilled for the new spring.
All I was charged was for postage.
Yes, great service!

[DGB]

I fully agree, just purchased two "[project locks]" with parts that were lost .
A quick phone call, and all is well. Great service from L and R.
DGB

[Lone Wolf]

It's been several years now but I also had a positive experience with L&R.  I had one of their locks that was chewing through flints and wouldn't spark well.  I sent it to them and they replaced the mainspring with a new and improved forged spring and made some other adjustments, and promptly sent it back to me.  It has worked fine ever since.

[Steeltrap]

I called about my frizzen spring issue that I posted here:  https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84709.0

The individual I spoke with agreed the frizzen spring was the issue. He stated to send back just the spring or the entire lock and they will fix it within a day of receipt. Nice guy to chat with.

[Eric Krewson]

I sent a lock back twice and had it shipped back to me in much worse shape than when I sent it in, the tumbler wouldn't even rotate in the lock plate, I fixed it myself because I was already $30 down for shipping it back twice. My question is how does one work on a tumbler and not check function before sending it back to the customer.

[Steeltrap]

Having experience with these locks my only comment(s) would be this is their business model. If you sell 100 very well quality controlled locks, and say 3% of those come back.....how much time (labor cost) does that take to have them all working properly before they go out the door?

Now, take the same 100 locks and devote enough time for them to function. Just function. Not function like they should or could. So, some of those 100 locks will be "tuned" by the end user. Some are fine. But a certain percentage will come back to be fixed. Say that's 25% of them. (I have no idea what the return experience rate is.)

Then do the math.

[Bob Roller]

Going back to the time L&R started the lock HAD to be the cheapest thing on the gun.Few if any American rifles of any kind had a high end lock.Had the German Black Powder shooters not contacted me I would have quit lock and trigger making in the mid 1970's.The mechanism that makes the gun lock is INSIDE the lock plate and the styling of the external parts means nothing if there is no mechanism to make it work Bad springs were a plague and foundries were not up to the task of making any that could be used reliably.This subject has been banged around off and on for a very long time.I finished my lock making in 2019 and still have parts from L&R and percussion hammers from everywhere but lower back stenosis and my wife's health issues make me really uneasy about leaving her alone and she forgets to take her phone with her when moving around the house.Recently she fell backward while doing laundry and no phone with her but I could not get her up but two carpenters across the street came and got her up and the last time the Fire Dept.emergency crew came.
Bob Roller

[Bill in Md]

On a lighter note, I polished up the old internals on the lock while it was apart, and installed the new spring.....flawless!.....It was off an old Ken Netting Fowler. At 20 paces offhand I can put the balls in a ragged hole.....I am an old Siler guy from way back, but this lock is so fast and so easy on my flints. Sorry for the direction of this thread but once in a while ya gotta roll up the newspaper when the pups get a little yippy......

[rich pierce]

If anyone wishes to continue discussions that are more personal, please decide if you want to just let it go, PM, or do old school communication outside of this forum

Sadly when topics go this way, some posts get deleted which don’t strictly break the rules but we do the best we can at our wage level.  The moderators appreciate everyone prefers to have their say, but things have gone sideways.

[DGB]

I ordered some parts monday from L and R, got them today!!
DGB

[oldtravler61]

   Every company will have parts that are not up to par. How they treat their customers is what truly matters. I've used L - R locks for years. There customer service for me is fantastic. JMPO

[Bob Roller]

L&R made it possible for me to send locks to Germany and a lot of flintlock target pistols were made with the small Manton externals from L&R and my internal mechanisms,Same thing using L&R plates and hammers for a percussion schuetzen rifle. I made a "3 pin Stanton"mechanism for that one and also made double set triggers for them.The bench crafted mechanism was a strong selling point in Germany and elsewhere in Europe.
A Weber&Reusch (Roysh)31 caliber cap lock pistol with a T/C hammer and milled plate that was popular and when I was no longer able to get the hammers from T/C Les Barber at the Mold and Gunshop n Ohio made a mould for them and most came from that shop afterward.
Bob Roller

[Steeltrap]

I sent my Manton back today. Tracking say's it will be delivered Monday. I'll post when I get it back. (They are replacing the frizzen spring)

[bigsmoke]

FWIW, I used L & R locks exclusively on our big bore rifles and I had nary a complaint from our customers.
Some of those rifles were used in Africa on big and/or dangerous game and that is surely not the time when you want a main spring to break.
We did send a repair parts kit with guns that were heading there, just in case, but they were never used.
As far as I am concerned, L & R makes a quality product at a fair and reasonable price.  Were I still in the business, I would still be using their locks.
John (Bigsmoke)

[elk killer]

one point..why does even one have to be sent back?
spend that much on something it shouldnt ever need to be sent back
sent one back 3 times because main spring almost comes off when cocked
after 3rd time its not one bit better
guess not everyone is treated the same...

[B.Habermehl]

I restarted a long rifle project that had a left hand LR late English lock. That was started and never finished by someone else. Absolutely the oldest LR lock I ever handled. The fly was a style I never saw on a LR lock before. It would not hold at full cock. I called them and they had a update kit for it. So I shipped it to them, got it back in a week. Works fine, the gun is now finished and out of the shop, and in the customers hands he’s tickled pink. This lock was obviously really old production. And who knows what fooling around it was through. Like I said no fuss no bother. BJH

[Bill in Md]

I started this thread for one reason and one reason only.....It was not to ask the question of L&R's quality or design of their locks, which I understood could open a Pandora's Box of opinion..... I chose the topic and the heading carefully, and it was their service that I wanted to talk about. I simply felt that in a world where good service is a rarity it would be a good idea to let my fellow BP shooters know that there are still outfits that warranty their equipment from the previous century, and yes it is disturbing to watch a few members guide the topic off course by stating their personal opinions of the product itself, but such is the human condition.....b

[Bob Roller]

I do not think for one second that L&R started with the idea of an inferior product of any kind but the foundries they worked with had no concept of quality control and said "We do production,not quality control".They sold me anything they had when I started working for the German makers and using their external parts and my custom,bench crafted mechanisms was a winning combination.No problem with frizzens or frizzen springs ever reported.The external parts I used were never flawed and the small Manton made it possible for the shop of Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany to make and sell a good copy of a pistol once owned by Napoleon.
My forged mainsprings were a real test for the cast frizzen springs because if the abrupt and violent opening of the frizzen in the firing cycle.I also sold some other styles of flint and caplocks to the shop of Gunther Stifter who had the shop as a hobby.Not ONE problem reported at any time with the L&R parts or mine.
Bob Roller

[Daryl]

I broke a frizzen spring once during a trail walk. Finished the trail walk, maybe another 10 or 15 shots without the spring, NP,  even thou THAT would have been hard on the locks innards and frizzen. The lock was a straight stock Dickert L&R, fastest lock I've ever seen.

[Bill in Md]

I do not think for one second that L&R started with the idea of an inferior product of any kind but the foundries they worked with had no concept of quality control and said "We do production,not quality control".They sold me anything they had when I started working for the German makers and using their external parts and my custom,bench crafted mechanisms was a winning combination.No problem with frizzens or frizzen springs ever reported.The external parts I used were never flawed and the small Manton made it possible for the shop of Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany to make and sell a good copy of a pistol once owned by Napoleon.
My forged mainsprings were a real test for the cast frizzen springs because if the abrupt and violent opening of the frizzen in the firing cycle.I also sold some other styles of flint and caplocks to the shop of Gunther Stifter who had the shop as a hobby.Not ONE problem reported at any time with the L&R parts or mine.
Bob Roller

Your post is of interest to me Bob.....my fathers mothers great, great, grandfather was a fellow named Heinrich Mohr who came to Eastern Baltimore County in 1811 and farmed areas that are now industrial land and a road there bears his name. I would imagine that not all the Mohr's left Germany and that a few could be gunsmith's working there today..... Thanks for sharing your story!.......b

[Bob Roller]

Bill in Md
Thanks for the note.Helmut Mohr lived in Mayen/Hausen on the Nette river and was born in 1939.His His father was Alfons Mohr who in 1940 marched into Paris with Field Marshal Rommel.I talked with him and he said at the end of the conversation that 'You speak good German for a man that hasn't used it for years". The Germans wanted any lock or trigger I would make and  cost was not a factor so I made what they wanted and payment was by wire transfer.In 2019 I stopped locks and made a few triggers after that but now at this point in time I may not restart.I am lurching and staggering toward my 90th year. .
Bob Roller 

[Steeltrap]

Bill in Md
Thanks for the note.Helmut Mohr lived in Mayen/Hausen on the Nette river and was born in 1939.His His father was Alfons Mohr who in 1940 marched into Paris with Field Marshal Rommel.I talked with him and he said at the end of the conversation that 'You speak good German for a man that hasn't used it for years". The Germans wanted any lock or trigger I would make and  cost was not a factor so I made what they wanted and payment was by wire transfer.In 2019 I stopped locks and made a few triggers after that but now at this point in time I may not restart.I am lurching and staggering toward my 90th year. .
Bob Roller

God bless you Bob!!

[Martin S.]

I do not think for one second that L&R started with the idea of an inferior product of any kind but the foundries they worked with had no concept of quality control and said "We do production,not quality control".They sold me anything they had when I started working for the German makers and using their external parts and my custom,bench crafted mechanisms was a winning combination.No problem with frizzens or frizzen springs ever reported.The external parts I used were never flawed and the small Manton made it possible for the shop of Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany to make and sell a good copy of a pistol once owned by Napoleon.
My forged mainsprings were a real test for the cast frizzen springs because if the abrupt and violent opening of the frizzen in the firing cycle.I also sold some other styles of flint and caplocks to the shop of Gunther Stifter who had the shop as a hobby.Not ONE problem reported at any time with the L&R parts or mine.
Bob Roller

Bob,
Do you have any pictures of the small Manton you once made?

I'd like to see them if you do.

Your locks are wonderful!

Martin