New old gun in the shop

[WKevinD]

54" .75 caliber, octagon to round, no buttplate, doglock. Trying to identify touch/ proof marks. Came out of Virginia.
I don't think its been touchedexcept for "in service" additions like the sheet iron barrel bands.
Kevin

[Avlrc]

It kind of reminds me of this doglock. Except this one is a round barrel the whole length.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/164266757_large-american-colonial-rampart-gun

[Avlrc]

Here is one with those bands.  Same barrel length and similar bore size. 
 https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/7271/category/610/category_chain/343,605,610/product_name/17734+MASSIVE+BRITISH+DOG+LOCK+MUSKET

[Mattox Forge]

Those proof marks look like Birmingham proof house marks used between 1813 and 1855.


Mike

[backsplash75]

likely a 19th century seal hunting gun.

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-550176.aspx

Some of them go south and get backdated/modified to improve marketability.

[backsplash75]

necroposting

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=63487.0

Nice article on seal guns here from the Journal of Canadian Arms collecting in 1966:


https://shop.joesalter.com/files/6665/4-1%20The%20Newfoundland%20Sealing%20Gun.pdf

[Pukka Bundook]

As Mattox Mike says, Kevin.

[WKevinD]

Thanks Richard,
I relayed the information to the owner. He was disappointed that all points are toward it being a seal gun early to mid-19th century,
I love the gun as it is, he wants it to be late 17th cent...still it's a cool piece!

Kevin

[JV Puleo]

It's pretty common for these to be dated to the 17th century. In fact, Gardner made that mistake. Here are two locks. The upped one is dated 1703 and was reused on a NE militia musket. The lower one is marked William Ketland & Co. and cannot pre-date 1803. Native hunters preferred the dog lock and large trigger guards because it could be easily handled with mittens on.

[smokinbuck]

With all due respect, I don't see how that trigger guard would allow the use of mittens.

[Hudnut]

Here are three guns - a 48" barreled 10ga, no doubt a waterfowler, a 4ga. Newfoundland sealing gun, and a .577 Enfield for scale.  Note the large trigger guard on the Sealing Gun, which would allow use of mittens.  Lock is a replacement.

[smokinbuck]

I agree Hudnut, the guns you show would work but the gun in the original picture would hardly accept a finger let alone a mittened hand.

[Avlrc]

I agree Hudnut, the guns you show would work but the gun in the original picture would hardly accept a finger let alone a mittened hand.

If and when it was a seal gun, it may not have had a trigger guard, or at least not the one on it now.   That could be a later addition.
Then again, some seal hunters may have been so tough that never wore mittens,

[Pukka Bundook]

Joe P,
Can you give us the length of the doglock in your lower picture?

Kevin,
Tell your client it Can be a 17th century gun.
All it needs, is a 17th C lock, stock and barrel! (and small parts)

[JV Puleo]

Hello Pukka...
Sorry for the late reply but I've been so busy working on my house everything else has fallen behind. This will sound strange, but I'm not sure where that gun is right now. It's probably in the "gun storage" room at may shop, in which case I'll measure it the next time I'm in there..As an interesting aside, Erik Goldstein (Colonial Williamsburg) told me it's the only Ordnance marked Humphrey Pickfatt lock he's ever seen. If I remember correctly, the barrel is marked AR...consistent with the lock and the barrel both coming from what must have been a very old gun when it was restocked.

Oh, and I think the mittens were made with a hole for the trigger finger...I've had mittens like that at one time.