Frustrated

[recurve]

1st shoot from a bench supported till you can see the patch fly down range (you are no longer looking at the pan flash) front sight locked on target
2nd drop your powder charge 80 should be easier on you till you get use to the flintlock/flinchlock
3rd it doesn't matter how much powder you use if you can't hit the target
4th work up the best grouping load and use that to hunt with(see 3rd) a 58cal hole in is better than a 58  cal miss

 if all else fails have someone else "load" the rifle sometimes with pan only blanks, and sometime No powder in the pan to see if you still flinch

at home put a quarter on the barrel flat at the front sight (with a wood flint) practice squeezing the trigger without the flinch(dry fire) till the quarter stays put

get into a habit of the same sequence ,load, mount , sights on target, deep Breathing in and out hold half out and slow trigger squeeze ,surprised release of the cock,  fallow though eyes locked on front sight locked on target till you hear the ball hit target

remember you don't have to shoot if it doesn't FEEL right start you sequence over till it does
don't rush the shot

[smylee grouch]

Very good advice recurve! 👌👍👍

[reddogge]

I honed my flintlock shooting skills in the 80s shooting lots of offhand competitions. What I had to do was tell myself don't move the gun off target until the recoil moves it off target. So it doesn't matter to me what's happening to my right, flashes in the pan, or anything. I hold until the gun recoils me off the target.

[Bill in Md]

I honed my flintlock shooting skills in the 80s shooting lots of offhand competitions. What I had to do was tell myself don't move the gun off target until the recoil moves it off target. So it doesn't matter to me what's happening to my right, flashes in the pan, or anything. I hold until the gun recoils me off the target.

Bingo

[J.D.]

You might try 'dry firing' with a wood flint at a target on your wall to get used to the hammer fall and frizzen flip.  Try it with both eyes open so you can see where your sights are pointed when you pull the trigger and when the frizzen flips open.  Ignition with a flintlock takes longer than with a cap lock so you need to hold a little longer when you fire.  You might also try counting to 1001 when you pull the trigger while trying to hold on the target.  Follow through is critical with flintlocks.

This is classic dry fire practice, and probably the best way to practice any long gun shooting. The key to dry fire practice is holding the rifle steady, with the sights properly aligned, on target, as the shot breaks, and during follow through to a slow count of 2 or 3.  Once you are able to hold on target, consistently, during follow through, begin using a flint and only prime the pan to get better use to the flash in the pan. Live fire practice is merely confirmation of diligent dry fire work. 
J.D.

[Bigmon]

My Sons and I have several 58 and 62 cal rifles.  Use 75 to 80 Gr 2F in all of them.

[reddogge]

If you are paying attention to the flash in the pan you are anticipating the shot which doesn't work shooting flintlocks.

[RichG]

get a led sled and put some weight on it. The recoil will hardly be noticeable. I shoot 120gr of 2f Old Eynsford in my 58 with a .565 ball and .020 patch for hunting. It shoots great with 75 gr 3f and .575 ball for plinking.

[Darkhorse]

My opinion is you should forget for now replacing the barrel or other accuracy enhancing techniques. As long as you have that flinch you will never shoot your best or even know what your rifle is capable of doing. You should make every effort to permanently erase the flinch from your shooting.
In the meantime I do advise you reduce that powder charge to something more comfortable.
I have a method of conquering that flinch that works for most people. However for it to work requires self discipline and the ability to follow directions without jumping ahead.
I can send you a copy if you like.

[rich pierce]

This discussion has some of the best shooting advice I’ve ever seen all in one place.

[Waksupi]

To get past the flinch, stop shooting from a bench until you lick the problem. Perceived recoil is more from the bench than when shooting off hand. Don't think of the lock when you shoot, concentrate on the sights. I teach people by telling them to think and count to their self, "squeeze, 2,3,4", before lowering the rifle. By concentrating on the sights, the flash is much less notable, and helps with overall follow through and accuracy. The more you shoot, the less you see the pan flash. I'm not aware of it at all anymore.

[A Scanlan]

Probably all good suggestions but honestly....

A 58, 100 yards and 130 gr powder.  So how big was that target?  Maybe your expectations are for perfect zero's.  Maybe the best suggestion is less powder and also try 50 yards or even 25 and then work your way out.  As to the flinch, a local hero Army guy says the best solution is to repeat a few words of caution to yourself as you get ready to pull the trigger.  Some practice that by mentally repeating "there will be a flash" three or four times in advance of firing.

[HighUintas]

I built a Jaeger with a Rice .58 caliber Edward Marshal profile barrel. It is square bottom rifling. The rifle weighs in at a little over 9 pounds.
I had trouble at first with the patching. and the ball combination. I started with Jo Ann's $0 drill and .570 ball with 85 grains Goex 2f. Patching didn't hold up. Tried different patching 10 and 12 oz denim. I switched to a .562 ball and things began to improve. All of my patches during experimenting were bear oil lubed.
I found some tightly woven canvas that is .022 thick. My trouble with the patching is gone.
By the way I have a plinking load of 70 grains of Goex 2f that is very accurate. Also, a Hunting load of 110 grains of the same.
I have to commend you on not having more flinches on your target. Shooting 130 grains of powder off the bench will definitely make you flinch.
I had a round rifling Rice barrel in .50 that game me a lot of trouble with patching and fowling. I did figure it out, but it was a lot of powder and lead to do so.

I was thinking of getting a Lee 0.562 mold to try. That would at least make it easier to load and should still fill the grooves as much.

[HighUintas]

When sighting in rifles with stout loads, I make use of a " PAST" recoil pad, which does wonders in eliminating the hurt.  Sometimes I'll even use my shooting jacket for it's elbow protection.  Having said that, many of the loads I use for hunting are in the 100 to 140 gr range [ 20 and 10 bore fowlers]  and the stock design of my guns is very recoil friendly . I don't even really see the "flash" because I concentrate on sight picture.  I'm saying this, because I'm wondering about the stock design of your rifle. Is it a known design or a custom build ?   Buttplate style ?  Full stock ?

I taped on n a makeshift pad yesterday and it helped a lot. It is not a recoil friendly design. Early style Hawken plate from track.

[HighUintas]

Where are you located in the "High Uinta's"? 
Maybe able to help if close enough, I am in Uinta county, UT.

I'm in Sandy. That would be great. I don't know anyone that shoots BP, so I'm left to the Internet and myself to figure it out.

[HighUintas]

1st shoot from a bench supported till you can see the patch fly down range (you are no longer looking at the pan flash) front sight locked on target
2nd drop your powder charge 80 should be easier on you till you get use to the flintlock/flinchlock
3rd it doesn't matter how much powder you use if you can't hit the target
4th work up the best grouping load and use that to hunt with(see 3rd) a 58cal hole in is better than a 58  cal miss

 if all else fails have someone else "load" the rifle sometimes with pan only blanks, and sometime No powder in the pan to see if you still flinch

at home put a quarter on the barrel flat at the front sight (with a wood flint) practice squeezing the trigger without the flinch(dry fire) till the quarter stays put

get into a habit of the same sequence ,load, mount , sights on target, deep Breathing in and out hold half out and slow trigger squeeze ,surprised release of the cock,  fallow though eyes locked on front sight locked on target till you hear the ball hit target

remember you don't have to shoot if it doesn't FEEL right start you sequence over till it does
don't rush the shot

Thanks. These are great advice. That is true that it doesn't matter if the load is more accurate if I can't hit anything!

I did go to the range yesterday just to shoot a lower load and focus on the flinch, I'll post a follow up shortly.

[HighUintas]

My opinion is you should forget for now replacing the barrel or other accuracy enhancing techniques. As long as you have that flinch you will never shoot your best or even know what your rifle is capable of doing. You should make every effort to permanently erase the flinch from your shooting.
In the meantime I do advise you reduce that powder charge to something more comfortable.
I have a method of conquering that flinch that works for most people. However for it to work requires self discipline and the ability to follow directions without jumping ahead.
I can send you a copy if you like.

I would absolutely like to try that. Thank you. I did go back to the range and shoot a lower charge focusing only on flinch. I'll post that shortly

[HighUintas]

To get past the flinch, stop shooting from a bench until you lick the problem. Perceived recoil is more from the bench than when shooting off hand. Don't think of the lock when you shoot, concentrate on the sights. I teach people by telling them to think and count to their self, "squeeze, 2,3,4", before lowering the rifle. By concentrating on the sights, the flash is much less notable, and helps with overall follow through and accuracy. The more you shoot, the less you see the pan flash. I'm not aware of it at all anymore.

Yes I'd planned on getting out to practice in the woods shooting steel or stumps, etc to get off the bench and focus on something other than thinking about not flinching. I think trying not to sometimes makes it worse

[HighUintas]

Probably all good suggestions but honestly....

A 58, 100 yards and 130 gr powder.  So how big was that target?  Maybe your expectations are for perfect zero's.  Maybe the best suggestion is less powder and also try 50 yards or even 25 and then work your way out.  As to the flinch, a local hero Army guy says the best solution is to repeat a few words of caution to yourself as you get ready to pull the trigger.  Some practice that by mentally repeating "there will be a flash" three or four times in advance of firing.

I think that target is about 12" circle, so the better portion of that group may be about 8-9 inches?

The goal is to have a very repeatable 3" or better group at 100 and hopefully be able to put a ball in an 8" circle at all time at 125-150 yards. I know 150 is stretching it, but it I can hit that size target at 150 every time, then I'd be comfortable taking the shot.

It is for an elk hunt. Probably a once in a lifetime tag and the shot opportunities in the area nearly all > 100 yards due to terrain, from what I am told by guys who have hunted it before. I I want to be 100% confident at 100-125

[HighUintas]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I really appreciate it.

I went back to the range yesterday with the plan to shoot a lower load and focus only on flinch.

Well, I had unexpected results.

100 yards, 80gr 2f schuetzen, 12oz patch w mink oil.

There were 10 shots. 1 sighter to get on target (not shown) and 1 big flinch way out. So there's 8 shots in that 3-4" group. That is the best I've done and was very surprised. I have tried that load before but not with those results. So did I get lucky or was I unknowingly flinching when I tried it before? I don't know. I hope that this load repeats itself.







I also tried 80gr swiss 2f but only had a few shots of that and a couple flinches so I didn't take a picture.

What I focused on while shooting was trying to focus on keeping my back straight and down in the gun. Not moving my shoulders until seconds after the shot. It's likely my hands would still fling a bit, but I could tell that it was better and not essentially having a seizure behind the gun.

[smylee grouch]

Have you ever used a P.A.S.T recoil pad? They work well for me when shooting from the bench with 410 gr round balls and 120 gr of Swiss.

[HighUintas]

Have you ever used a P.A.S.T recoil pad? They work well for me when shooting from the bench with 410 gr round balls and 120 gr of Swiss.

Yikes, that sounds like a hefty load. I haven't tried one of those but thought I'd look at getting one after recommendations here.

I forgot to mention that I taped a makeshift foam buttoad on yesterday and it helped.

One problem with this early Hawken butt plate is that there's absolutely no heel extension to keep the plate higher on my arm/shoulder, so it wants to slip down a little and the corner of it gets me right in the joint. If it stayed higher I think it would be more comfortable.

[taterbug]

well, that style stock does not help with 'felt' recoil.  I bet it seems to smack your cheek a bit. 

Don't know how heavy that gun is, but if you can use a shooting stick while standing the felt recoil would seem a lot less.  Even just sitting (if you still can - I cant) will make for less perceived recoil.  Or try kneeling with the rifle on a solid rest.  All of these could be postions you might have to use in the field.   

And that last group is definitely nothing to be ashamed of, except for the 'flyers' you mentioned.  Working around that load might tighten it up a bit, but more importantly you'll get more practice with a load that doesn't make your eyes cross with a flinch.  no need for 'moose-kicker' loads when punching paper.

practice is your chance to accept the fact that there will be recoil.  Nothing you can do will stop the recoil.  you can only lessen the recoil with padding or shooting position.  Anything you do before the shot to anticipate the recoil, will only spoil the shot. 

[recurve]

I use to have to  hunt and sight in with slugs 1 1/4 oz , rifled shotgun (a real thumper)
so I don't feel the recoil from muzzleloaders
and I had to qualify with an 870 remington 00 buck law enforcement officer (and other weapons) and U.S. Army Military Police. 4 yrs carrying an M60 than 16 with m203 as a fire team leader.

[sonny]

Take cardboard and ducktape and make a temporary cardboard wall to block you ftom seeing the hammer fall or frizzen flash from distracting you.