Kibler Assembled in the White Kits

[NCgunsmoke]

I'm new to the forum, and new to the hobby as well. I've been around guns my whole life and built a few AR-15's. I currently work at a local gun shop. So i'm pretty familiar with centerfire guns of every vintage. I am somewhat familiar with muzzleloaders, as I hunted with an old Thompson Center Arms Hawken when I was growing up. I have been intrigued by the Kibler kits for awhile. I have a interest in history and I really like the Woodsrunner rifle. My only problem is time. I have precious little time off, and I usually have a pretty long "honey do" list on those days. I saw that Kibler rifles is offering new kits that are assembled in the white. He says all they need is some sanding and then some finishing of the stock and metal. I was wondering if anyone on here has ordered and completed one of these kits? I would rather not get into chiseling and filing and fitting. If these new kits really just need a little finishing, that's about the amount of work I'm comfortable with doing. Hopefully Kibler is planning to offer all of his guns this way in the future.

[Ats5331]

You could finish a Kibler in less than 5 hours without paying the extra cash for a kit in the white. Just take the leap—they are so easier to put together and Jim includes an instruction book with the kits.

Super easy, trust me. Save your cash and don’t spring for an “in the white” kit

[2 shots]

my kibler fowler came in what i would call in the white, barely needed sanding. the colonial kit i have needs a little more time to finish but still nowhere near what any other kit would require

[ColonialRifleSmith]

IMHO, $525.00 is quite a lot for the amount of work performed for an 'In the white' delivery. There are a few excellent builders on this forum who will finish the kit for you for less. I have finished several Kibler kits. This is a Woodsrunner I finished for a kit buyer who didn't have the time to complete the rifle himself. PM me if you're interested.

[Jim Kibler]

It does cost a few bucks, but just hire a plumber and see what $500 gets you.  It comes assembled, the stock is sanded, barrel drawfiled and the hardware polished.  This isn’t for everyone, but it’s good for some.

[alacran]

If all you have to do is disassemble to finish and reassemble once all the wood and metal finishing is done, then what Kibler charges is not out of line.
Considering that all the metal is ready to go, I think he is downright inexpensive.

[bluenoser]

I agree with Jim.  In my opinion, $500.00 is very reasonable if the assembling includes sanding, draw filing and hardware cleanup and polish.  I have assembled a number of Kibler kits and have seen the references to five hour builds.  In my opinion, a five hour quality build (not including the application of wood and metal finish) is not a realistic expectation.

[smylee grouch]

Go for it, $500 is Cheap for quality work. 

[rich pierce]

Go for it, $500 is Cheap for quality work. 

There’s things I can do and things I pay others to do. It’s not cheap to get a car fixed or wiring or plumbing done.

Locally I’m living in a barter economy. Can’t do everything that way but when it works it’s great. I have a welder/fabricator neighbor who will make or weld anything for me so long as it’s big. I give him vegetable starts and do gun work for him. Nobody keeps a tab or tally. I like these relationships.

[Bob Roller]

The "heart"of any kit for a muzzle loading gun is the lock.The fanciest wood and best possible barrel are useless with out a way to make it go BOOM reliably.The Kibler locks are top of the line and I think my lock making experience speaks for itself when I say this.Muzzle loading guns were.when I started in 1951 at age 15 were considered as a joke and anyone who used one for hunting or target shooting was indeed a weirdo.TODAY an industry to make them in venues from match lock to the English thousand yard specials is ready to serve any needs or answer any questions concerning these guns.My preference is for the English,Scotch and Irish long range rifles with fine sights and locks that are common to these are always a pleasure to examine.Meeting some of the founders of the NMLRA,Bill Large,E.M.Farris,Clarence Ramsey was an experience and that occurred in 1953.I never met Powell Crosley Jr,who made the purchase of land at Friendship Indiana possible and
I did a brake repair on a car he once owned.It was a Duesenberg that he bought when it was new and it cost $16,000 in 1934.
Gettting back to locks,the first new ones for sale were made by Chest Shoults in Lapeer,Michigan in 1955 and were assembled from quality castings that were financed by a lawyer in Ohio that had a real interest in muzzle loaders.The moulds that were used cost $5000 in a time when some people supported a family for a year with $5000.I was able to get the external parts for this little lock which was said to be a Ketland and I met Mr,Shoults later ar a gun show in Ohio and he said he was glad to  see I was making that lock.Now I think Log Cabin Shop in Lodi,Ohio owns the moulds after the death of Jerry Devaudreuil who owned them and a lot of others.I remember Liza Kindig called me and was wanting to know about all these castings and moulds.She bought them so they wouldn't be taken to a city dump by someone who had no idea what they were.
Bob Roller
We had some major electrical work done in our 120 year old house and it put a $3900 dent in our savings about 6 weeks ago.

[NCgunsmoke]

I appreciate the feedback. I am at a point in my life where I don't really have the energy or time to learn how to do things like draw filing a barrel, and fitting locks. There will probably come a time down the road where I have time and energy for such pursuits, but now isn't the time. If all I have to do is literally finish the wood with a stain and put a finish on the metal, I'm good with that. It looks like it would cost me $1760 for the Woodsrunner assembled in the white. I seriously doubt that I could find any REPUTABLE gunsmith willing to completely finish a Woodsrunner kit for considerably less than that. Plus, I would have more charges from shipping the rifle around several times, which would not be cheap in the wooden crate. To me, it seems like a very good deal. However, while we are on the topic, I'll say this....I really wish that Kibler would offer completed rifles as an option, without sending them to a third party. It seems as if they are almost there with the assembled in the white kits. However, as a small business employee, I realize that would require bringing in and training extra employess, and dedicating more shop space for the builds. Perhaps as the business grows, he could consider that in the future.

[bluenoser]

Sounds like you have a well thought out plan.  There are many finishing options that could really complicate in-house complete builds.  Speaking of that, do your research prior to applying finish.  Lots of good advice on this site.

[NCgunsmoke]

I would say that Kibler should not offer options for finished rifles. Pick a finish that is representative of how most rifles of the period were finished, or take a poll and see what finish most would prefer and offer that. If someone wants to get really picky about the finish, then chances are they are probably really into the weeds about these rifles and would be willing / wanting to build it themselves. I think most people would be very happy with just a fully finished gun that looks period correct. There is definitely a market for such things.

[P.W.Berkuta]

It does cost a few bucks, but just hire a plumber and see what $500 gets you.  It comes assembled, the stock is sanded, barrel drawfiled and the hardware polished.  This isn’t for everyone, but it’s good for some.

For the OP this is the best way to go and you get the best of the best too boot! No fuss - no muss- and no wasted time. As the saying goes - Time is money!

[Paul from KY]

Much of the Kibler kit finishing work is more drudgery than highly skilled work.  I have built a Woodsrunner and a SMR for myself and done the lion's share of the work on my son's fowler and Woodsrunner.  Each kit presented different challenges to turn out a quality finished product. With some of the kits the brass was easy to finish and fit, and other kits had brass that needed a lot of filing, sanding, and polishing.  One of the trigger guards was slightly warped and needed to be twisted a bit to fit. One barrel required only light sanding and polishing. and another barrel needed a lot of draw filing. My advice to anyone considering building a Kibler kit is to watch his instructional videos, which contain building techniques that will save a novice a lot of headaches. I have worked on two other kits made by other companies, and the Kibler kits are much easier to assemble.

[okawbow]

Don’t underestimate the final finishing work. A really good finish job can take weeks and can make or brthe looks of the gun. There are several good assembler’s out there that will provide a great looking finished rifle at a very reasonable cost.

[Stoner creek]

The color and finish on the wood and metal parts is everything! I’ve seen guns out there that are neatly assembled then colored in terrible loud colors. There’s one in particular that turns up here that is the same color as a Stop Sign 🛑. Correct finish is the magical part of this craft. It’s not easy and requires a lot of trial and failure.

[NCgunsmoke]

I may cheat and take the kit to a local gunsmith that builds custom bolt action rifles. He makes spectacular custom stocks from a blank. He also does bluing and cerakoting. So I figure he might know a thing or two about finishing the kit.

[NCgunsmoke]

Out of curiosity, are there any well known Kibler kit finishers in NC? It would be nice to be able to drop the rifle off and pick it up instead of shipping it. I would even be willing to go to southern Virginia or upstate South Carolina.

[Eric Krewson]

There is new, finished, carved version of the Woodsrunner for sale over at the M/L forum for $1600, the guy is just asking for the parts cost. 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Out of curiosity, are there any well-known Kibler kit finishers in NC? It would be nice to be able to drop the rifle off and pick it up instead of shipping it. I would even be willing to go to southern Virginia or upstate South Carolina.

Go figger, I'm from NC, but now I live in Pa. How ya' say? Shoot, I got married. 😂

[Bigmon]

If you can't find time to assemble one of Jim's kits, or finish one after he assembles it in the white, how are you going to find time to use it?
His products are great, and if he assembles it even better.  Well worth the cost.  I think you might find as much reward in at least staining and finish, and metal finish, as shooting it.  That's part of the thrill!!
Best of luck, you won't go wrong.
But I don't know about having a modern gunsmith assemble or finish it?

[JTR]

The guy in reply 16 does a good job, or so I hear!
John

[NCgunsmoke]

If you can't find time to assemble one of Jim's kits, or finish one after he assembles it in the white, how are you going to find time to use it?
His products are great, and if he assembles it even better.  Well worth the cost.  I think you might find as much reward in at least staining and finish, and metal finish, as shooting it.  That's part of the thrill!!
Best of luck, you won't go wrong.
But I don't know about having a modern gunsmith assemble or finish it?

I honestly won't have much time to shoot it. I would like to shoot it enough to familiarize myself with it, but it will mostly be a display piece. I want an example of rifles from every era in my collection. I could never be satisfied with an Italian replica.....just too many things wrong with them. Not to mention the huge billboard that is engraved in the barrel with the name of the importer, it just looks awful. If the finishing is as hard to master as some say, I don't have the time to master it, and I don't want something that looks like $#@* hanging on my wall.

[Bigmon]

Oh, now it's making sense to me.  Good luck, and you are on the right track IMHO.
Regards