7 Horns and a Bag.

[Frozen Run]

Here it is roughed out prior to going in the horn kiln:



And the horn kiln. I call it the pig and one day I hope to paint it pink and give it a squiggly tail:



It cooked the horn off in 2 minutes, it has got a bit of a learning curve to it. I finished heating it outside the kiln and I believe I have something salvageable. Won't know until tomorrow!

[Stoner creek]

Excellent! Keep us updated!!

[Frozen Run]

Will do!

There may be a bag in here somewhere I believe? The strap may be Maryellan's though I can't say for certain.



Added some color:

[Frozen Run]

I fit and secured the base plug and began rough shaping it. There was a large burnt out section near the base last night that I tried removing and doing something with that area, but ultimately it was a losing battle so I just hacked it off entirely.

Doing new things create new challenges to learn from. Here with my first flat(ish) horn it was fitting the base plug. With a round base it is pretty easy to do so: you shape it with a round cone, trace the base, cut it out, dress down the sides to fit the taper and you are done. On a flat horn, you use the base plug to shape it so it's a bit trickier walking it back and forth.

I also prepped the bag components for stitching.

[Frozen Run]

I stitched the inner pocket and modified the woven strap. The elephant in the room here is the blatantly cockeyed pocket. I can live with sort of cockeyed, but that train left a week ago. I got about halfway through stitching it before I even noticed and then just decides the best thing to do would be to finish stitching the pocket as is and figure it out later. There is some excess width I left in the flap as well as a bullet hole that needs patched so I should be able to blend it out with everything else going wrong with the bag.

I bought the buckle 15 years ago waiting for the right project to come along and now I'm just waiting to find out from someone that it's not even remotely period, that it goes to latch down an awning that Kmart sold in the 1970s. Well, the joke would be on you then as this bag is going to PA eventually so in all likelihood that individual owns a 50 year old Kmart awning whose latch probably has been missing almost as long.

I did this really cool effect on the leather bits where it is darker around where it has been in contact with the brass buckle, but that effect got washed out by a too dark main color. You can still kind of see it, maybe I'll try buffing it back some tomorrow.

Also you may see two tiny needles I modified as anyone who dabbled in leatherwork will know they will run just shy of thread two stitches from finishing a section. These things have saved me a number of times already.

[Frozen Run]

I decided the best solution for the cattywompus pocket would be to pull the stitches out of the upper left, trim that section of the pocket down, and then run the stitches back up. I also refined the shape of the flap some more. I think this is now within the margin of error for a homespun bag?




I need to run a line of stitches along the flap border to secure the liner, and I also need to figure out what to do about that bullet hole. I thought originally to just leave it alone, but that area would just turn into a liability as the fabric breaks down. Then I thought about stitching in an oversized patch and do my interpretation of the Mike Brooks painted Lehigh that I like to use sometimes for scale in pictures. I bought some angelus paints and I was about to contact Mike to get his permission for the design but my excitement over the idea cooled before doing that.

Then I thought I'd cut out a large fraktur bird from sheet brass, engrave it, and rivet it in to cover up the hole but first I thought that would look like I'm reaching really hard for something and it would lose the spirit of the project. Plus, it would likely make the bag uncomfortable to use. I'll probably just stitch in a patch and come up with some design to paint over it as I already purchased the paints. I don't know.

[Frozen Run]

I stitched the flap up on the bag last night and mocked up some ideas regarding the bullet hole, they all looked artificial so I decided the glass is full on this bag. I'm going to stitch the straps on, add some touch up color and call it good.

I also got back to working on the horn. I shaped the plug some more, worked on the tip, started dressing the sides down flat and got bored with how it was going so I added facets. 6 facets fit naturally, but what kind of person would I be to give my friend 6 facets? So I added one more, and then I think I drew in one or two more as it looked right, I'm not really sure.

I included a Mike Brooks painted Lehigh for scale.

[Frozen Run]

Plot twist! It turns out my friend Chris is a left side hardliner, Ken  is indifferent. The horn part of this thread is now the Ken horn.

[whetrock]

Looks like your horn is coming along nicely.
Your bag looks comfortable, but it seems to me that covering that hole is something that probably needs to happen. Any sort of patch would work, and I know you've considered a lot of options already. Perhaps a  D" shaped piece could be added to the flap, basically matching the outline of the flap as it is? Or perhaps slip a piece of thin leather under the hole, between the flap and the liner, and then stitch through the flap, patch, and liner?
I look forward to seeing more photos as you make progress.

[Frozen Run]

Thank you for the kind words! I believe you are correct about the bag, but I haven't figured out anything that I like yet. As it sits now, it is pretty aggressively stitched at the bottom of the hole before the border line of stitches runs over it. Plus with the liner it feels pretty solid.

I like pieces that tell a narrative so the idea of putting a large bullet hole was more attractive to me at the time than a plain piece of leather. The problem I'm learning after the fact is it's cool to have a narrative, but that story needs to make sense. I went into this project with the whole frugal and not waisting anything spirit of our forefathers, but the realization came too late that hides were probably common enough that they would have just cut around the bullet hole for the most part. Because what would be saved if you then have to spend the time fixing something you didn't need to?

So then I thought well maybe it was damage done years after the bag was made and this was just salvageing something still usable? But I couldn't think of anything that would cause that sort of damage or wear that wouldn't also have destroyed the rest of the bag so that idea fell through.

And then I had the idea of unless of course you had good reason to use that piece. That the original maker used that piece of leather because the hole didn't matter as it was going to be covered up in the end. Not with a patch, but with something else entirely...but to find out what, you'll need to tune in for the next installment of

Making Stuff For My Buddies: Chris, Ken, Wayne, and Hopefully Mike as Well.

[whetrock]

I guess people do sometimes get a little carried away with faux damage and repairs. Repairs can make a bag more interesting, but, speaking only about my own personal preference, I like to see repairs done well, as if the guy really expected the repair to last for the rest of the life of the bag. I think poorly done repairs are more likely to look staged.

While it doesn't make for a very interesting narrative, I can say from personal experience that mice will chew up a bag. One of my bags had the leather strap eaten about half-way through by mice. I guess I spilled some food or grease on it at some point and they found it tasty.
So I can easily imagine rodents chewing up the flap of a bag and it needing a repair. The mouse that chewed up my bag chewed up the edge of the strap for about 5 inches and made a half-circle hole in the edge about the size of a quarter, with obvious bite marks. I haven't repaired it yet, but when I do I will cover it. Nothing entertaining about seeing a mouse hole. I have also seen a couple of antique rifles that had some mouse damage.
 

[Frozen Run]

I completely agree with you. These are some of the things I'm trying to learn. One thing in particular I see sometimes, and have been guilty of myself, are crude stitches. The idea that because someone wasn't a trained leather worker or because they're living out in the sticks that their stitching is crude. I suspect in reality that everyone's stitching was extraordinary back then being such a fundamental and necessary skill?

I may have to steal your mouse damage idea as truthfully I have nothing...

[rich pierce]

The most common needed repair is a new strap connection but that’s seldom part of what contemporary artists do when making an aged bag with some damage.

[Frozen Run]

Thank you, Rich. What color does the area where the strap connection and the bag mate turn over time? When that connection finally breaks, what is the imprint of where it once was? Is it really dark and musty or lighter than the surrounding bag?

[Frozen Run]

I've been working on a number of horns over the weekend and taking a lot of L's. At this point I don't know who's getting what horn or even which ones are even going to finish off into one.



1. I bought that horn last year, treated myself to something that wasn't a dog chew. It was before I took Clinton Byers' horn class so I got greedy with the tip, and drilled out the side. Through it in my box and just dug it out last weekend. Luckily it drilled out the side of the tip. So I have this neat tool a journeyman horner showed me how to make where you can steer the hole but I couldn't really use it that well so I drilled another hole that ended up popping out just above the first. So I drilled a third hole and that one hit its mark. Since the first two holes didn't enter the body thankfully, my plan is to glue in a 1/4 dowel through the tip wall to fill the hole and make the exposed bit of wood look like bug damage.

2. This originally raw horn looked like a pine cone before I dressed it down. I discovered it is very thick throughout except right there in the body which was paper thin after I removed the bark. I figured I'd practice flattening it out anyways and that's when it split in the thin area. I plan on using black acraglass to a piece of horn shard on the inside of the horn to close up the hole, then I'm using steel staples on the outside to sell the repair. I think it still has cool potential in it and worst case scenario I'll get some practice doing different things.

[Frozen Run]

3. This was that rude looking horn I unwittingly  purchased at the fair last year that I tried dressing the tip down to make it less rude but it was super thin on one side so I was dressing it off in preparation for an applied tip but the super thin area just kept wisping away regardless of how much I was avoiding it and eventually ended walking it back to the body. At that point I probably should have just transitioned to a rum horn or something instead of a powder horn...instead, I chose to test its resistance to ball peen hammer blows. Needless to say it possesses almost zero resistance to hammers of any sort. I'll cut out the remaining good section in the middle and do something with it. I don't know what though. Yet atleast.

4. Another flat horn primer I'm making. This one is really thick. Rather than dressing it down prior to flattening, I decided to just try it as is. It took forever to flatten and looks like a giant asymmetrical tumor. Hopefully I can dress it off into something presentable.

5. This one is going ok. The base plug however has been a nightmare. I wanted to make one of those folksy cone plugs but I didn't have any pine big enough so I used some maple, but it really wasn't working and I'll probably have to scrap the plug atleast and maybe do a 2 piece pine plug.

[Frozen Run]

6. This horn has a narly looking step near the base. Haven't seen an original that maintained that step, but I fear it would be much too small if I lop it off? Maybe someone here can comment?

7. The horn that started this thread. I pulled the facets back but fear I pulled them back a tiny bit too much? I don't know but I'll build it out and see where it takes me.

[whetrock]

Looks like you have enough to keep you busy for a while!

Looks like you are using rasps and files. You may know this already, but just in case, when you are working on horn (and wood, too, for that matter), it's a good idea to stop using rasps well before you get near to your final dimension. The teeth of a rasp can bruise the horn (and wood). So stop using the rasp and files earlier than you might think is necessary, and from that point switch to scraping. That will help you avoid having rasp stripes in your final product. (I'm not talking about texture. I'm talking about parallel stripes where stains affect the bruised areas differently than the areas around them. A horn can be bruised and you not even see it until you apply a stain. Same for wood.) You can scrape with a card scraper, or a knife, but I think one of the best for horns is a sharp pair of scissors. (Glass will work, too, but I don't like using it. I've had it break and chip while using it.)

Scrapers on horn will usually leave some tool marks. In my opinion, for "user" horns, small lines or ripples are not something that need to be polished out. I scrape horns as nicely as I can, then I rub them vigorously with wads of the scrapings to burnish them, but I do not polish out all evidence of scraping. The antique horns I own all show some ripples or other tool marks--evidence of being scraped. I find that final scraping is usually smoothest if it is from tip toward the base, as that works with the grain of the horn.

Another tip that you may or may not know, is when you are ready to make and fit the small plugs (spout end), you can use the tang of a file to scrape the inside of the spout hole so as to get a good taper. That's a good taper for a spout hole, so that the spout plug has a fiction fit but doesn't get stuck in damp weather. You can also use a small knife to scrape the spout hole right around the mouth of the spout just a bit more, to make that last 1/4" or so slightly larger in diameter, so that the plug doesn't fit tightly there. That helps keep the plug from cracking the spout as the horn shrinks and swells in the seasons.

Maybe you know this stuff already, but I wanted to share it. Maybe it will be useful to somebody.

[Frozen Run]

Thank you, whetrock, that was a lot of helpful advice that I'm looking forward to trying out! I'll keep you updated on how it all works out as this thread progresses.

[Frozen Run]

My friend Phil has a different approach to the issue you mention. He files a slight relief in the stopper:



I'm sure they're both good methods, just different approaches.

[whetrock]

Frozen Run, Thanks for sharing that other technique. That's helpful. It's a clever solution.
I only have five antique horns here right now. I just checked them. The makers of two of them used the method I mentioned. The makers of the other three didn't. Five is not a very large sample, but it's still helpful to compare.
With the two that did use this technique, the lip of the horn is relatively fine. With the others it is relatively thick. I like the finer lip, myself. But both are "correct" as far as antiques go.
Only of the horns I have here has its original spout plug. That one just has a simple tapered plug, with no relief carved into it. That's on one of the horns with a thicker lip. I just mention that to tell you what I have. I think Phil's technique is a good one.

[Frozen Run]

That is interesting finding out about the relief in the tip on those originals. Conversely, It's puzzling when you see or learn about original items and the maker was not concerned with or was unaware of simple preventative steps to common problems.

I wonder what were some of the more common repairs they used for a cracked tip?