Author Topic: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.  (Read 8878 times)

Offline whetrock

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2025, 05:35:38 PM »
Provided the relief is not pinched, it seems to me that Phil's technique should be fine. The technique I suggested should be fine as well.

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2025, 07:42:29 PM »
Tim, I'm not sure if it matters or not, but Phil says that drawing of the relief is exaggerated? Are you saying both methods are not advised? Thank you.

 I have always used just tapered pegs, never thought of the relief or heard of it. I'm sure horns go through many stoppers during years of use. I'd go with what you feel comfortable with doing.

  Tim
 

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2025, 07:08:03 AM »


1. Shaped it a little more and plugged the hole in the tip wall with a 5/16 hickory dowel. I had to go up to 5/16 because between the overlapping holes, 1/4 was too loose. I blew out a nasty shard of horn in the tip running the 5/16 bit through it. Whatever.

2. Shaped it a little more and installed the base plug. I was originally going to do a staple repair of the crack in the body, but decided to just glue a horn shard over it and do a leather wrap as it will be easier to do and will look better I believe. I've seen a leather wrap on some of Tim's horns which is where I got the idea. Then the base cracked a little as I was installing the plug so I guess it's getting staples as well.

3. This was the hammer experiment horn. I cut off the bad bits and will likely turn a tip for it.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2025, 07:27:08 AM »
4. This is the horn i experimented with by flattening it before shaping it out. That was a bad idea. Besides it being much harder to flatten, it was very difficult to shape without being able to insert one of Tim's stakes. I shaped it a little and installed the base plug.

5. Shaped the base.

6. Shaped some and fit the base plug. I have this really greasy idea with this horn to do a 3 piece pine plug with faux stripes. 3 piece because to get pine that big I would have to buy posts which are all pressure treated from what I can tell and I didn't feel like breathing in the chemicals. I hope to disguise the fact it is 3 pieces.

7. Shaped this a bit and started engrailing it. I like doing stuff in layers since I know I will be distressing the item. It gives it depth. The engrailing is currently poor, even for a folk horn. It will need a lot of clean up. I started with a gouge but went to a dremel and will go back to a gouge. I really don't know what I'm doing here. In your mind it's so simple, scoop it out with the gouge. In practice, horn is unforgiving and dulls your tools quickly. I experimented with the dremel but I don't know if that is the solution?

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2025, 08:44:54 AM »
7. The engrailing was a mess, and I presented the good side to the camera... I messed around with it some, maybe if I knew what I was doing I could have fixed it? I just knocked it off with a rasp. The problem now is that the already too high up facets are now 50/50 with the body and 50/50 is boring so I just took the facets up as high as I could and I'll figure something out later.

Offline whetrock

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2025, 02:08:36 PM »
Frozen Run,
You are learning, and that's an important goal in itself!
Regarding the engrailing, are you struggling with the spacing, or with the cutting?

For the spacing, I usually just look at it from the end and put 2 pencil marks directly opposite each other. Rotate it a few times to check them, and adjust as necessary. Then turn the horn and put marks half way between those first marks. Again adjusting as necessary. Then add marks between those marks, and so forth, bisecting each time until the marks are evenly spaced and of the spacing I want.

It's also possible to wrap a piece of tape around it, mark the diameter on the tape, then take the tape off and stick it to something flat and slick, such as a counter top. Then measure off your spacing on the tape. When done, then pull the tape off the counter tip and put it back on the horn and transfer the marks.

You may want to add a line behind the engrailing, as well, to help you establish how deep you want each cut to go. This will mostly be determined by the shape of the gouge in relation to the spacing, but it can still be helpful to have a line to look at.

As for cutting, I do it with a gouge.
With a gouge, I take small bites, again and again, until I have finally cut it as deep as I want. I find it best to cut between the marks, leaving the marks until the very end. I go around and around the horn with tiny bites, working on consistency, taking small bites until I have cut out the area between the marks, then I stop. Maybe some guys just do it with big bites of the gouge, but I just find it easier to get good cuts and consistent spacing if I do it the way I explained. You have to adjust the angle of the decent so that it scoops out the material, rather than just diving in deep. Imagine what you would need if you were trying to carve a wooden spoon. Each dip in the engrailing is like 1/3 of a spoon-shaped depression. If you aren't used to controlling gouges like this, then you could practice on the edge on the end of a piece of hardwood.

Hope this helps.


« Last Edit: June 30, 2025, 04:18:53 PM by whetrock »

Offline whetrock

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2025, 03:06:11 PM »

Regarding the butt plug and needing to glue pieces together, are you trying to have end grain showing? A lot of horns were made with end grain showing, but it's also perfectly fine for the plug to be cut out of a flat piece. Both types occur in antiques. So if you don't have a piece of pine big enough to use end grain, you could use also use a piece of spruce shelving board or something like that. Carving a circle out of a piece of flat material is a bit more difficult than carving it from end grain, but your rasps can make short work of it.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2025, 06:24:07 PM »
Thank you for your help on the matter! My problem was both. I didn't lay the design out initially, I just had an idea and ran with it and it didn't work out at all. And also cutting out the engrailing. This horn is brutally hard. I'm not sure how much of that is the horn itself and how much is from cooking it off to flatten? But it is not soft like you see on a lot of polished horns.

I'm not really sure about the plug. I just had this really greasy idea and thought I'd try it out. It's either going to work out stunningly or it'll be a complete failure and I'll work on something else. I scored and colored the mating surfaces to help bind and hide the clear 2 part glue line respectively. I plan on drilling and gluing in a dowel for extra support. If the dowel accidentally pops out the side then I will dress it up to look like an inclusion. I'm also going to hollow out the plug somewhat.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2025, 09:58:52 AM »


1. Shaped it out some more. Not sure if the facets are staying or going. It's kind of thin. The tip repair came out pretty good.

2. Repaired crack in the body with wood glue and horn shard. It's air tight. Going to do a leather wrap once it dries.

3. Discussed bone tip with my friend Phil.

4. This one was on its way to becoming an honest to goodness dandy. The plug fit really well, it did leave an obnoxious little gap between the rim of the base and the plug in one small spot which I probably could have just packed with wax as it was totally cosmetic...but instead I dressed it down and was going to finally add some staples to something, but the staples were really annoying so I just added some metal pins. Whatever. I also shaped it some more.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 7 Horns and a Bag.
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2025, 10:09:05 AM »
5. Installed the base plug. It's going to be a high dome, a little scrimshaw on a slender horn. This one should be a home run.

6. Shaped it out some more. I ran a 1/2" dowel through the 3 piece base plug and completely blew out the top piece. Added more glue and went back in the vise.

7. This is the horn I rasped off my shody engrailing from yesterday. Problem is I have nothing to transition out of the facets with and the horn is too thin to run the facets up the whole length. I've been methodically removing ugly bits hoping to make something out of it. I'm thinking about just covering it in scrimshaw. I'll have to wait and see where this horn takes me.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2025, 09:27:48 AM »
So I was in my workshop having one of those nights where you could do no wrong. I decided I wanted to dress horn #3 up a bit and flatten it. It was totally solid, but my draw knife was easily peeling off large strips of horn like you would pull the husks off of corn, without even trying. For context my draw knife is wicked dull, not something I'm proud of but important for the story. I dress it down a good bit, get the horn good and malleable, begin to flatten it, heat gun heating the horn and the jaws, juggling the shims, and the slightest bit of pressure and I hear the crack.

And not a tiny crack either, but one so long that if it was any longer it would have split the floor I was standing on. Not a problem, I think to myself, I'll just use one of these mythical staples that never actually come to fruition or solve anything. Reset, give it another go and it cracked on a different side and delaminated a third. Well I'm not one to give up easily but this accursed horn just wasn't meant to be so now I'm making a spoon. I've always wanted to make one and honestly 6 horns may be all I can juggle at one time?

I also cut out and distressed a D shaped piece of leather to patch my bag's flap.

Pictures are going to have to wait for the next update. It's late and I want popcorn.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2025, 08:00:16 AM »


Progress!

Offline whetrock

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2025, 01:24:34 PM »

Looking good!

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2025, 07:32:05 PM »
Thank you! I noticed after the picture I took that horn #6 revealed a tiny pin prick hole in the neck. I'm not sure how compromised the surrounding area is. I'm thinking about titebond 2 a horn shard over the area and then covering it up with either rawhide or a cord wrap like you see on ball bags. Horn work can be maddening at times, everything around the hole is like a quarter inch thick that thins out to almost nothing in that one spot.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2025, 10:25:51 PM »
I talked to the future recipient of the bag, sent him a picture and gave him the option of as it is now or with a patch in the flap. He prefers how it looks now with the hole so that is what I'm going with.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2025, 07:53:08 AM »


1. Fit, installed, and shaped the base plug. Tweaked the facets a bit.

2. I had that crack near the base that I sealed with titebond 2. I figured nows my chance to finally do a staple repair. The base plug was already installed, so I cut barbs into the staple to hold it. Drilled my holes and began tapping it in, until it stopped. It wouldn't go any further and I can't pull it out. I added an eyelet in the base to obfuscate matters and pull your attention away from the staple. I also scrimshawed a border that I experimented coloring it with a sharpy. I'll have to go over it again and use ink this time as the sharpy didn't work out so well for me.

3. I acquired a 2nd spoon to study.

4. I scrimshawed the horn. It's awaiting color. This is the horn I'm making for Simeon as a gift for the excellent flint and steel he gave me last year.

5. I finished tweaking it for the most part, awaiting scrimshaw.

6. I shaped the cone out really nice and started drilling out a pilot for the screw and it blew out a nasty chunk of wood. The pilot was like 3/32 or something small and it just split the top of the cone. Oh well. I dressed it off and tweaked the horn, played around with some color on the base plug.

7. I squeezed everything I can on of this horn and am beginning to scrimshaw in some pennsylvania dutch designs to turn it into a polychrome horn. I want to experiment with inks and colors and this horn kind of has some dutch swagger going for it. Not a whole lot, but it's got some.

8. Perceptive viewers will have noticed an 8th horn project going on here. I used to know a guy who knew I was into horns and he found something at the flea market and gave it to me. The neck was likely plastic and missing and the body has two small holes in it to feed a piece of cord through. The body is honest to goodness horn though.

I was reading somewhere and saw pictures of an original with a wood plug filling bug damage and got the idea to try that on this horn. My friend Doran gifted me an antique horns with a lot of interesting ideas that I will try to incorporate into this one. I don't have high hopes for this project so I'm not ready to change the title of this thread just yet...

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2025, 08:49:54 AM »


1. I didn't like how clunky and boring this horn was so I made some changes. You can see the dowel from the miss drill. I will probably need to extract that and change things around some.

8. I turned a tip from walnut. I didn't want to practice on horn being as expensive as it is. I copied somewhat a carved tip off a horn my budy Phil made. I also fit and installed the base plug. I cut a tiny rectangular hole near the rim and whittled the base plug back some so that a strip of leather can be fed through the side and tacked on the top of the plug. I'll make a leather stopper for it to help mitigate cumulative swelling.

9. I force myself on the GM at work and show him horn pictures. Long story short, I'm making him a horn for his office. It's going to have a naval scene on it where he's fighting a sea serpent.

Offline whetrock

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2025, 04:59:19 PM »
...
9. I force myself on the GM at work and show him horn pictures. Long story short, I'm making him a horn for his office. It's going to have a naval scene on it where he's fighting a sea serpent.

I look forward to seeing that!

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2025, 06:33:19 PM »
Thank you. 

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2025, 08:53:53 AM »


4. I inked the scrimshaw, it still needs touched up. It reads:

SIMEON ENGLND
SMITH OF ALL SORTS
FIRLOCKS *HAWKS
KNIVE*SYTHES AND
SYTHING ACCOUTERMENTS
BLACKSMITHng
WHITESMITHng
GREYSMITHng
MOUNTAINSIDE
COBBLER->TUESDAYS
NATURALIST
VICTOR OF NO
FEWER THAN 3
FOOTRACES
BUT NO MORE THEN
FIVE FOOTRACES
MOONLITE FROG
CATCHER
LOVER OF SOUPS
HUMBLY,
HIS HORN.

7. Began scrimshawing. Still needs a lot of work.

8. Shaped it some.

9. Shaped this one some more.

Offline whetrock

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2025, 04:50:27 PM »
SIMEON ENGLND
SMITH OF ALL SORTS
FIRLOCKS *HAWKS
KNIVE*SYTHES AND
SYTHING ACCOUTERMENTS
BLACKSMITHng
WHITESMITHng
GREYSMITHng
MOUNTAINSIDE
COBBLER->TUESDAYS
NATURALIST
VICTOR OF NO
FEWER THAN 3
FOOTRACES
BUT NO MORE THEN
FIVE FOOTRACES
MOONLITE FROG
CATCHER
LOVER OF SOUPS
HUMBLY,
HIS HORN.

 ;D
Outstanding poetry! Will be a treasured heirloom, I'm sure!

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2025, 07:54:52 PM »
Will be a treasured heirloom, I'm sure!

That is my hope. Though as an unsolicited present from a nearly complete stranger I need to face the possibility that it may get tossed in the waste bin as well.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2025, 09:34:02 AM »


2. Played around with color some and stitched a wet piece of bark tan to cover the repair I made a while back.

4. Played around with color.

5. Colored it some and began scrimshawing. The opposite side had some of my best scrimshaw to date but I guess I didn't cut it in deep enough because I lost most of the other side with steel wool. Whatever.

6. Color, engrailed the ring, and installed a wood plug. I think I kissed the inside of the horn barely when drilling the spout. I tried packing a little wood glue a couple times and then later with 2 part epoxy but it wouldn't take. The area would get stressed and a tiny leak would form. I drilled it out and glued a wood plug in to simulate a period bug damage repair. I kept the plug proud because I like how it looks like a wort.

7. Played around with color.

9. Shaped it out some more and roughed in some basic scrimshaw.

Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2025, 07:29:37 AM »
Some stuff I finished up:




















Offline Frozen Run

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Re: 6 Horns, a Bag, and a Spoon.
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2025, 02:57:21 AM »