Author Topic: Fowler from a long time ago  (Read 4922 times)

Offline Jim Kibler

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Fowler from a long time ago
« on: July 02, 2025, 08:21:16 PM »
So here's a fowling piece I made a while ago, when I was a custom gun builder.  I'm not posting this to try to show off or anything like that.  There's a story that goes with it that I think might be appropriate...

I worked on this gun for probably 6 months full time.  I made the lock, all the mounts etc. etc.  It was a huge project and I put my all into it.  When It was done I of course showed it to people, but also showed it to those who I look up to and asked their thoughts. 

I remember showing it to Wallace at WKU and having him give his assessment.  He was complimentary about some things of course, but he didn't like the buttplate that I'd designed and spent loads of time making.  His take was that it was too formal for the period and something with a looser feel would be much better.

I showed it to Frank House and asked him the same question.  Again he was complimentary, but felt the wire work was lacking.  That it was too heavy.

These opinions didn't feel good, but you know, they were right and I took it.  Even If I disagreed, I would still take it.  They are people I look up to.  I'm more than willing to accept where I fit in.

There are people who have done amazing work and those who have amazing knowledge out there and I respect them.   These aren't people who have self-appointed themselves as some expert, but have earned it.  I'm talking about people like Mark Silver, Jud Brennan, Wallace Gusler, Jack Brooks, Brad Emig, Allen Martin, Mark Wheland, Mike Gahagan etc. etc.  All of these guys and others have earned their reputation through their work. 

This longrifle community is much bigger than those represented on ALR.  I don't think many here really understand and appreciate this.  Do you ever wonder why people of this caliber don't want to get involved here?  I'm sure it's for lots of reasons, but I can assure you it's at least in part because they don't want to deal with opinions, comments and disrespect from those who haven't or can't do what they have.  Everyone has a voice on forums like this.  It's a good and bad thing.




















« Last Edit: July 02, 2025, 09:21:23 PM by Jim Kibler »

Offline johnfolchetti

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2025, 08:29:15 PM »
Sweet Mother. That is stunning. How do you find time to do that, run a business and expand said business all at the same time?
Im gonna have to re-examine my priorities.

Offline P.Bigham

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2025, 08:29:49 PM »
Awesome. I believe I seen this when you brought it down to 1 of Hershels seminars. I remember Frank being impressed. 
" not all who wander are lost"

Offline Steeltrap

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2025, 09:05:50 PM »
What?  No lock engraving?  ;) ;) ;)

Stunning is right.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2025, 09:20:00 PM »
What?  No lock engraving?  ;) ;) ;)

Stunning is right.

And that's another story...  It's engraved, but not as well as it should be.  I'll try to find a close-up.  I remember showing it to Mark Silver and he asked if I'd rubbed the engraving back.  What he was getting at is that it was weak in strength.  Again he was right.  Did it feel good.  No, not at all.  All this work on a hand made lock and the engraving not quite right.  Well, that's what it is.

There's levels that go way beyond this forum world.  I guess people don't often realize what they don't know...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2025, 09:25:20 PM by Jim Kibler »

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2025, 09:35:48 PM »
Nice clean work no the less. The comments were made with eye for you to improve I am sure.

Mike

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2025, 09:38:05 PM »
Nice clean work no the less. The comments were made with eye for you to improve I am sure.

Mike

Yeah!  I'm still proud of it, but at the same time I know it could be better!

Offline PHolder

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2025, 10:32:37 PM »
That is absolutely stunning work!!

Thank you for your contribution to this craft.

Offline Rawhide Rick

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2025, 12:59:34 AM »
There are many people in this hobby, and others, who simply appreciate craftsmanship and dedication.  They are not attached to the “period correct.”  Then there are others who eat, sleep, and breath, the pc hc stuff.

I look at what you built and see unbelievable skill, and vision.  I view your abilities and opinion in probably in the same way you view Mr. House’s skills/opinion.  While it’s great that you can take constructive criticism from people you respect, it does not detract from your accomplishments when you do it.




Offline mountainman

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2025, 04:22:01 AM »
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it!!!
You became your own master!!
It is absolutely a great job well done and beyond!!! Beautiful Work!!!

Offline bobw

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2025, 06:28:01 PM »
Jim,
I completely understand what you are saying in your post.

And, it’s not about the gun!

I follow 3 different forums, and see all the time, where folks comment when they really shouldn’t, sometimes commenting when they haven’t read thread or have obviuosly never done the thing they are commenting on.

And, then there are those you just know, they know what they are talking about.

I would guess if you weren’t running a very well respected business, and still doing custom work, you would not be posting here either.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2025, 06:33:12 PM »
One's own talent and craftsmanship seeks its own level like water. You grow when you seek and look at work of the more talented folks. But you will not move ahead if you don't learn the skill to do so.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2025, 09:13:14 PM »
Jim,

Correct me if I am wrong, but my read of your post indicates to me that the comments that were given to you were more about the style and not the execution. That is, Wallace thought that the buttplate engraving was not fitting for a 1770's style fowler, etc.

This seems to be a matter of taste vs craftsmanship, or perhaps a matter of opinion about historical accuracy doesn't it?

Based on the photos, I don't see how your execution can be faulted.

Mike

Offline Polecat_Tom

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2025, 09:41:45 PM »
I am in now way qualified, but I think this is absolutely beautiful.

Offline jamie5070

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2025, 10:40:13 PM »
When I read about the rifles of the period, I often see references to different schools/styles of rifles. Now we have the Kibler style/school. Your work makes my only build look like I strapped a
piece of pipe to a 2x4. Absolutely beautiful.

Online Clowdis

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2025, 03:22:23 PM »
Jim, some makers take these comments and get angry, others take them and get better. Apparently you are the latter. Sometimes it takes guts just to ask one of those guys for judgements. 

Offline JTR

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2025, 06:12:01 PM »
Kibler, as a custom builder, was no doubt one of the best!
John
John Robbins

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2025, 06:55:47 PM »
  Jim I've met most of the people that you reference. One thing that everyone one of them have told me. You ( meaning anyone ) can't get better unless your willing to except good criticism. Not negative insight but helpful advice and are willing to listen an learn. My take on why they don't join some forums is that to them. Time is money and they would rather apply it to there business time. JMPO

Offline Rmjchas

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2025, 08:04:07 PM »
Wisdom begins when you realize how much you don't know, and are willing to listen to those who do know.

Beautiful gun, far beyond my level of skill!

Offline Daryl

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2025, 09:39:12 PM »
I find that gun to  be quite breathtakingly beautiful.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Denny Ducet

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2025, 07:17:25 AM »
I remember the first time I saw this gun maybe 10 years ago. I’ve often gone back just to admire it again. I’ve showed it to others as an example of the unbelievable craftsmanship that lives on today. Of course my assessment holds no weight compared to the likes of Gusler or House, however the work here and the detail is impeccable. I appreciate it and thank you for sharing it again.

Offline ScottNE

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2025, 02:04:31 PM »
What?  No lock engraving?  ;) ;) ;)

Stunning is right.

And that's another story...  It's engraved, but not as well as it should be.  I'll try to find a close-up.  I remember showing it to Mark Silver and he asked if I'd rubbed the engraving back.  What he was getting at is that it was weak in strength.  Again he was right.  Did it feel good.  No, not at all.  All this work on a hand made lock and the engraving not quite right.  Well, that's what it is.

There's levels that go way beyond this forum world.  I guess people don't often realize what they don't know...

Good morning Jim,
Did you happen to find a close-up of the lock?

Offline Tony N

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2025, 03:54:48 PM »
Absolutely beautiful, amazing talent you have!

Tony
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Offline bama

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2025, 06:10:02 PM »
Jim, I have been amazed at your quality of work ever since I first met you. Without a doubt you are one of the top builders today. You also have made a big impact on our community. You have added to the community and expanded the long rifle culture for many that may not have ever tried their hand at building. I applaud your efforts and dedication to quality and historical correctness in your products.

There are many on here that produce quality custom builds that will never have a huge impact on our community. Most are OK with that, they just want to build a long rifle that functions and works like it should. Some on here think they are experts, some are, some are not, but they are all entitled to their opinion. As you said, you have to take whatever their opinions are and continue on regardless of what you think.

I really enjoy and appreciate everyone's builds. If every build was just like everybody's else, we would get bored pretty quick. I like the differences that people come up with. Not all of the old master's quality were at the same level but we love all of them. Differences in schools, differences in hardware, carving, stock profiles, triggers, locks, barrel length, full stock, half stock, rifle, smooth rifle, fowler, hog rifles, southern rifles, PA rifles, mid west rifles. So many differences, I don't think I will ever get tired of looking at a new or old rifle, that's the fun of it. Enjoy the journey, it does not last forever. Take advantage of it as long as you can.

Keep up the good work

Jim
« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 11:53:40 PM by bama »
Jim Parker

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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Fowler from a long time ago
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2025, 10:53:54 PM »
Thanks to each of you for the kind words about the fowling piece.  I really didn't post it to get praise, but thought it might help make a point.  We're all at different levels, but it's good to be honest with ourselves and know where we stand.  Online forums and the internet in general have created a platform for everyone who wants to contribute, for better or worse.  This can be frustrating.  I usually don't offer views unless I either have evidence to back up what I say or I've already done it.  This often seems to be optional in today's world.  I've taken part here because I've learned a tremendous amount over the years and like to share what I know, but I've come to the conclusion that I really don't fit in.  So with this the case, I'll at least be taking a break from the online forum world and focus on my projects, which I have many!  You never know, I might poke back in from time to time as well. 

All the best,
Jim